Duran v Chavez who wins catch weight?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by gooners!!, Apr 2, 2009.


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  1. Scar

    Scar VIP Member Full Member

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    Duran by UD or Chavez by robbery.
     
    Scar, Apr 4, 2009
    Scar, Apr 4, 2009
    #136
  2. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    :silly
     
    Robbi, Apr 4, 2009
    Robbi, Apr 4, 2009
    #137
  3. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No doubt in my world....:bbb

    MR.BILL:rasta
     
    MRBILL, Apr 4, 2009
    MRBILL, Apr 4, 2009
    #138
  4. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No excuse... But Roberto Duran quickly ballooned up in weight immediately following his points loss to Hagler in Nov. 1983... By March of '84, Duran was near or at 180 pounds and in gym preparing for a June fight with Thomas Hearns... R.D. was reported to be 178 lbs. for the press conference with Tommy Hearns.... At any rate, Duran lost over 30 pounds in a short time and was drained when he took the money and folded inside of round 2 against Hearns....

    Roberto Duran looked so sluggish to me early on against Tommy Hearns it made me ill... I had a feeling it was gonna be ugly for Duran, but I didn't want to believe it.... After the disasterous first round was over, I knew goddamn well the fight was just about over..... Jesus H. Christ, just upon entering the ring I thought Roberto Duran looked as if he had just crawled outta bed with a *****..... Then Duran comes into the ring and sits down in the corner..... WTF?

    Tommy Hearns more-than-likely would beat a 1984 version of Roberto Duran at 154 pounds anyways, but Duran could've done a lot better had he been mentally and physically right..... The Duran who showed up to get clocked out by Hearns in 1984 was an imposter........:twisted:

    MR.BILL:deal
     
    MRBILL, Apr 4, 2009
    MRBILL, Apr 4, 2009
    #139
  5. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    What's with catchweight obsession.

    Both fought at 135, both fought at 140, both fought at 147.

    You don't need a catchweight, pick a weight and stick to it.
     
    TommyV, Apr 4, 2009
    TommyV, Apr 4, 2009
    #140
  6. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very interesting thought...:good

    SR.BILLARDO
     
    MRBILL, Apr 4, 2009
    MRBILL, Apr 4, 2009
    #141
  7. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    Hearns weighed 170 walking around at that time also, so how is that different from Duran walking around that much? Duran looked sluggish because he was fighting a fast sharp guy who was looking to knock him out. Most guys do not go at Duran like Hearns did. Hearns is an ATG who had knockout on his mind and he was going in there to knock out Duran. All the excuses in the world do not change history. Duran was in shape. But let's say he was not just for your argument. Hearns right hand still lands and it still lands at will and knocks out Duran. Duran did not take the punch well at all. Duran never had to take a Hearns right hand with that speed. In shape or not Duran gets knocked out by Hearns. Everytime Duran lost he made an excuse of not being in shape. Benitez,Hearns,Leonard 2. Yet shockingly he trained for Moore and Barkley but did not with the ATG's he fought in Benitez,Hearns and Leonard? Not an excuse?
     
    MAG1965, Apr 5, 2009
    MAG1965, Apr 5, 2009
    #142
  8. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    Roberto Duran has managed to convince his fans that when he lost it was not the real Duran. But the facts are that the greatest guys he ever fought. Hagler,Hearns,Leonard,Benitez he lost to all of them. Why would he not train for the greatest fighters he was going to fight? Doesn't knowing your challenges and challengers and what to look for constitute a form of greatness? The knockout of Duran by Hearns is probably the best knockout in boxing history. Hearns was the WBC champ and Duran was the WBC. Great matchup.
     
    MAG1965, Apr 5, 2009
    MAG1965, Apr 5, 2009
    #143
  9. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    Sometimes it seems like Duran fans find it hard to accept that someone (Hearns) could knock out Duran like Duran knocked out other guys. That Duran was knocked out cold and demolished makes people go into denial. As much as Duran fans try, you cannot take the win away from Hearns. Watch the fight and see how determined Hearns was to destroy Duran. Tommy was on a mission to hit Duran and hit him hard and often and fast. It was a great performance, one of the best ever. History recognizes the Hearns/Duran fight as legit. between two great guys who were both champs at 154 -Duran was the WBA champion at the same weight and Hearns from the WBC. This was a unification fight, just that the WBA stripped Duran for not defending against McCallum. The Hearns/Duran fight will live in history as one of the greatest knockouts in boxing history.
     
    MAG1965, Apr 5, 2009
    MAG1965, Apr 5, 2009
    #144
  10. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    Had Hearns got the win against Leonard during the rematch in June of 1989 and not the draw, the contracts were set for Hearns and Duran to fight their own rematch. Duran did not seem too enthusiastic about it. My pick would have been Hearns KO 4 Duran in the rematch. Hearns was a little slower in 1989 than in 1984 and Duran slower also, yet Hearns would still get the right hand in and stop Duran. Duran cannot beat Hearns. The speed of Hearns jab was too much, and then Hearns power in his right gave Duran hardly a chance.
     
    MAG1965, Apr 5, 2009
    MAG1965, Apr 5, 2009
    #145
  11. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    Listen Arguello was a puncher. He was not comfortable fighing inside. He COULD fight inside, but by no stretch of the imagination was he comfortable fighting there. Pryor took advantage of that. I know you will say he was past his best, but thats what happened regardless.


    Arguello struggled with two things ..........lateral movement AND when his opponents got close too him. why ? a few reasons.

    He had long arms which meant he had to rotate his body more when inside to turn his punches over. Which is obviously easier for a guy with short arms than it is for a guy with long arms. There are excepction to the rule like Bowe, but most tall fighters are not great inside.

    Anyone who knows Boxing knows that the power is on the end of your punches where you get the extension, its one of the reasons you twist your hip and turn your back heel simultaniously whilst turing the right hand over so your fist is facing the floor on impact. To get full extension on the shot to increase power.

    Why do your think Hatton stayed close to Tszyu ? because he knew if Tszyu had time and space to get the extension of on his shots he was gonna get hurt. Its one strategy of how you deal with a pucher.


    There are two ways to fight a puncher you stay outside and give lateral movement or you get inside his power. Both are dangerous when you are facing a guy like Arguello, because any shot he hit you with could KO you. What you had to do with Arguello was find a balance between the two give lateral movement and occassionlly step inside and throw, and that is exactly what Ruben Olivares did when he frustrated him and nearly beat him. Problem is like i said even when you had success against Arguello he could still take out because any shots he landed with could KO you. One of the main reasons Vilomar Fernandez beat Arguello was because he beat him over 10 rounds not 15. The way that fight ended i dont see anyway Fernandez was going to last the 15 rounds, because Arguello was alll over him at the end. Fernandez fought Duran to and put up a great fight, but Duran had 15 rounds to deal with him. So you see strictly lateral movement (only) against Arguello was not good enough. Not in a schedueled 15 rounder anyway. You had to mix up your game plan to beat Arguello like Olivares did. Olivares got caught and knocked out in the 13 th round but he was 2 rounds away from beating him. Fernandez would not of gone past 10 if it had been a 15 rounder he to would of been KTFO the way Arguello was coming on at the end. Arguelo did beat Fernandez second time around to so...

    You had to use use both strategies to beat Arguello. Chacon tried to Box around him and had some success, but he still got KTFO. Mancini tried it one way aswell which was to go straight at him. Mancini was doing well also, but he got tired from being so active and then the gap between them got bigger Alexis got his time and space and Ko'ed him.

    You had to do to Alexis what you do to most big punchers. Keep making em reset by giving lateral movement, and you have to step inside with them sometimes to earn some respect, otherwise they will do what Margarito done to Cotto, just walk you down and bang you when all that lateral movement catches up with you and takes its toll on your stamina.

    Hopkins beat Trinidad by making him reset. Never allowing him to get his punches off, because that is 1 strategy of how you neutralize puncher. The other is to stay close and get inside their power.

    Niether of these things worked exclusively against Arguello, athought you could say Pryor exclusivley got inside his power and won the fight. You had to do both to maximise your chances, because he was one of the most consistent fighters ever with an excellent chin. If you kept running he would get you when you slowed down. If you only stayed inside with him he would eventually tag you with something.

    Fernandez only had sucess using lateral movement because he fought Alexis in a 10 rounder just like De Jesus beat Duran in a 10 rounder.


    Pryor fought a great fight against him, because Pryor knew he was not comfortable fighting inside. Pryor was clever though, because he was taking it to him and when Alexis was getting disorganized. Pryor would do this stuble move where he would step over and switch the angle where he could mount another attack. By doing this he was staying off the line and not being there for Arguello's receipt.

    :good
     
    gooners!!, Apr 23, 2009
    gooners!!, Apr 23, 2009
    #146
  12. BUDW

    BUDW Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Duran in a short war KO 6 rds
     
    BUDW, Apr 23, 2009
    BUDW, Apr 23, 2009
    #147
  13. Dan684

    Dan684 Dave's Stepdad Full Member

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    Duran all day IMO
     
    Dan684, Apr 23, 2009
    Dan684, Apr 23, 2009
    #148
  14. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I too am going with Duran
     
    Vanboxingfan, Apr 23, 2009
    Vanboxingfan, Apr 23, 2009
    #149
  15. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You're right about everything you wrote,but 1.Duran did beat natural welter Leonard (12 pounds above Duran's best weight and 29 above what Duran debuted at) at the end of Duran's prime.2.Hagler,Hearns and Benitez were all naturally bigger than Duran and Roberto fought all of them when it was obvious that he was way past his prime,but much,much respect to Tommy in that virtuoso performance.I mean,****,Duran loses to Kirkland Laing?What the ****?3.Styles make fights,and Duran probably could never beat Tommy under any circumstances,but Duran beat Leonard in the first and obviously was in crap shape for the rematch,and Leonard did ko Tommy.Duran has no excuse for coming in unfit,but we have to take the facts for what they are.At lightweight he lost once in what,70 fights?He was knocked down one time in the first round twice by the great DeJesus, the first time in a non-title 10 rounder,ko's DeJesus twice including in the second fight where DeJesus scored the second knockdown.Duran's greatest victory was against Leonard 12 pounds above Duran's best weight at the end of his prime,and Chavez's best victory was the come from behind one against Taylor.Duran outpoints Chavez at 135.Just a better fighter,although not by a helluva lot.
     
    Clinton, Apr 23, 2009
    Clinton, Apr 23, 2009
    #150
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