Duran V Hearns 1980

I agree with just about everything you said.

When you look at Roberto Duran past the Leonard fight in Montreal, he never beat anyone that was an elite fighter.
His best wins were vs Moorer and Barkley, both maybe good, but also very one dimensional and limited fighters.

To say that Hearns does to the Duran that beat Leonard what he did to him at 154 lbs, is insanely ludicrous.
That Roberto Duran was'nt even close to the one that beat Leonard.
In fact, Duran looked bloated vs Hearns at 154 lbs.

First off Duran was'nt only sharper at Welter, but he did everything better. Slip, counter, punch, stamina, you name it and he did it better.

Leonard basically beat Hearns by doing the things that Duran was famous for....getting on the inside and roughhousing.

Only Duran imo would have done it better than Leonard.

It would'nt be easy for the first half of the fight, but after the 6th round imo Duran owns Hearns.

You have it right Doudenum, Duran takes Hearns into deep water, and I say about the 9th or 10th round on, all we see is Hearns under water with bubbles popping out in the surface of it!

Tommy was just too skinny and malnourished a Welter imo to have dealt with any great Welter in history that was offensive minded, much less the great Roberto Duran.


Having said that, Hearns imo is overrated as a Welter, he looked so much better to me at 154 lbs!

 

Leonard wasn't exactly the epitome of "offensive minded" in 90% of the fight, because it would have been suicide. He had to sit back, eat jabs and wait for the times he tagged Hearns with something substancial before getting too aggressive. If some great goes after Hearns they'd better have an ATG chin. This skinny and malnourished guy decimated many a fine chin at 147 in spectacular fashion.

 

Duo and Divac offer the most sensible arguments here, in my opinion. But I can't quite throw my hat in that ring.

1980 Duran versus 1980 Hearns suffers severe physical disadvantages. Hearns would represent the most formidable threat to him by far. Far more than Leonard who, although greater than Hearns, did not dwarf Duran. Hearns had a frame that could comfortably carry 175. Leonard was a natural WW, and Duran's frame was ideal for 135.

The reach advantage was ridiculous, and when you combine that with Hearns' fast twitch fibers -which rival even Jones', it spells serious danger to a short-armed, box-shaped Duran. Hearns' power is something else. Duran's chin was excellent, when he was in condition and focussed, Duran's chin was even better and his defense was excellent. BUT -no one can take too many shots from Hearns and Hearns would be throwing fast, straight shots at the shorter man at will. Duran won't evade them all.

Hearns' distance negotiation would come into play here as well. He had efficient mobility and was not adverse to stepping back or to the side to deal the inevitable Duran rushes.

Hearns' jab was like a piston -he could double it up, stutter it, feint it, and completely disrupt Duran's plan. He could throw it at Duran's chest and keep him off balance. Duran would have a helluva time trying to get set and trying to get in.

My point is that Hearns is Duran's nightmare.

However,

Hearns fades. I reject any argument that Hearns was as formidable at 147 as he was at 154. He was weaker -it's physics. The man's weight was too low to disperse over such a long frame. His ribs were exposed, his legs were spindly. His head looked like a bean.

Duran has some things going for him in 1980. Arcel and Brown would be with him so he would not have employed the idiot strategy he did in '84. He was near-peak and would be in supreme condition.

Duran would have to stick to him like a cheap suit, angle around him, and try to keep Hearns on the defensive for the first 5 rounds -overhands, rib shots, hip shots when possible. He would have to be more tight in terms of defense than he ever had been before. His corner would need to adjust his aggression dependent on Hearns gas tank round by round. Duran would necessarily have to be stronger as the fight went on and he would have to survive the first 5 rounds in tact. No easy task there.

An analogy: Robinson found Turpin to be a stylistic foil for him. Robinson beating Turpin increased his greatness because of that. Duran beating Hearns would be 10 times greater -and more surprising -no, it would be miraculous.

 

Miraculous = Duran W 12 Barkley. If Roberto had in in him in 1989, then he surely could have had it in him during 1980.

 

And indeed in 1984..........

 

Duo...

Barkley was peaking that night in my opinion. He never looked better than he did against Duran before or after. However, he had neither the skill nor the power nor the speed of Hearns. Barkley brought a completely different set of strengths against Duran. Duran could cope with that set far easier than he could against what Hearns' brought.

JT....

The Duran that stepped into the ring in June 1980 was a beast.
The Duran that stepped into the ring against Hearns 4 years later was a half-ass.

 

It was rather hard not to point out the obvious tho. And i still believe Hearns takes Duran out impressively at any point, but it's all opinion of course.

 

Styles....always a car wreck. Hearns early.

 

And it's jolly good to see you posting!

 

just had to pipe in on that one......it's just one of those styles issues....

 

Totally agree.

 

I also concur. Whilst Duran was undoubtedly better at 147, even the Duran of New Orleans still won't be able to deal with the physical and stylistic problems that Thomas Hearns brings to the table. Tommy will land hard and often and his jab will completely disrupt Duran's gameplan. It may go longer but not much longer.

Hearns KO3 Duran.

 

After seeing this thread I decided to watch a nice amount of Hearns and Duran around that era*. I started taking notes here and there, watched their postures, found punch totals, and various other research techniques to reach a conclusion. And this is what I've come to. Hearns may have been quite the bomber with a crisp punching style and very rangy due to his freakish height, but Duran at his best was a master fighter that capable of dominating nearly anyone. These two meeting up in that time period would have created a stylistic match up greater than the first Leonard - Duran meeting. Roberto would have created an insane amount of problems and Tommy could have done the same.

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. And on top of that, there is a great chance that Duran could have put Hearns down in the late rounds. A Hearns that young had no true idea of how far his chin would extend himself. He obviously overextended himself against Leonard and it is a possibility that Duran could do something similar to Hearns.

* Duran Vs. De Jesus 1978
Duran Vs. Palomino 1979
Duran Vs. SRL I 1980
Duran Vs. SRL II 1980
Hearns Vs. Cuevas 1980
Hearns Vs. Shields 1981
Hearns Vs. SRL I 1981

Also Duran Vs. Hearns 1984.

 

Duran who beat Leonard still had the flaw of parrying jabs downward with his left hand, a habit he had against Buchanan and maintained until he retired. Tommy could always drop the right hand over this and land on his chin because of his height. Duran never had to deal with this bad habit because Tommy was the first one with that big of a height reach advantage and power.

Steward and Hearns said they planned to jab to the shoulder to get Roberto to have to block lower and then drop the right in. It is a flaw in Durans style that causes Hearns to beat him every time in my opinion

 

Interesting observation and not having seen that many of Duran's fights at lightweight one I never noticed before. No surprise that Steward told Tommy to jab to the shoulder as it's exactly the same thing he told Lewis to do against David Tua.