Duran vs Lamotta @154

When the OP says primes...This one doe s not. When a fantasy fight is given at a weight at I look at that fighter at that weight...And for my money Duran's prime is clearly lightweight!

 

These H2Hs are prime for prime -unless it's contested at a particularly weight class, then you look at their best in that weight class. LaMotta did get down to 157-58. That's not "nowhere near the weight."

 

not often in his prime.

and Duran being one of the greats LWs, though he fought equally long or longer as a WW cum mw...

thats where I would say his 'level' best is, and in this weight he could meet Jake comfortably.

anyway as stated it would be a victory for lamotta.

 

Duran wins a close one here, whether at 154 or 160

 

i love duran and i've never been enamoured with lamotta but i can't see him pulling it off at 160 on their best nights

lamotta could be outboxed (and was) but at their respective bests, he's just too big and strong at middle

 

When I think about the people Jake LaMotta beat?....Ray Robinson (!!!), Marcel Cerdan (who I think very highly of), Fritzie Zivic, Bob Satterfield (who was as devastating a puncher as you can get really), Jose Basora, Eugene Hairston (who I also think VERY highly of), the likes of Tommy Bell, Jimmy Reeves etc even the murderers row Holman Williams, Marshall and Bert Lytell - the very fact that he could fight tooth and nail with Sugar Ray Robinson and become his arch rival in a way tells me that LaMotta certainly can mix it with the very VERY best and take them to the trenches and the natural size advantage of Jake is a big gulf when he was as good as he was at fighting people down and roughing it with the roughest guys around? LaMotta was a beast at the weight really - he was a brickwall of a guy - really a lightheavyweight he mixed it with one or two lightheavyweightscumheavys and stopped Wagner who at one time took Floyd Patterson the distance - Duran was beligerant and the ultimate macho man and a seasoned boxer with his experience but I don't know? A great and brutal fight with neither wanting to show they were conceeding to the other but I think ATG middleweights upwards were Duran's limit - which ain't bad for a natural lightweight

 

160lb Lamotta is smoke and mirrors, when he beat Robinson, Ray was what 144lbs? The Ray Leonard Duran beat is a better win. Marshall bossed Lamotta and didn't seem to rate him too highly. Holman Williams was 34 with 177 fights and that 1 went to the wire and I've read was controversial. The Lytell SD seems like a fight that maybe should have been a loss. He fought 5 fights with a 150lb Zivic, losing 1 and the 2-3 of them going to SDs.

Lamotta was a very good fighter often mistaken for a great fighter but Duran was a great one. Now Lamotta style wise plays right into Duran's hands by pressuring him. I'm not saying Lamotta can't win but he isn't even the puncher in this match up, Duran was more devastating against 147lbs-160lb men than Lamotta was. Duran has the better defence, better jab, better technique and is quicker

 

Duran..too many tools for Lamotta.

 

160 I like Lamotta. The result at 154 has nothing to do with Duran though. If Lamotta can get down to 154 then I think it's a 50-50 fight, however if Jake struggles to get down to 154 then Duran takes a close one on the cards

 

Lamotta

 

LaMotta is getting underestimated here. First of all, he was not simply a one-dimensional brawler. You don't compete like he did against Robinson and be simplistic. Robinson himself commented on his strength and his power (LaMotta was yet another fighter whose hands got tender with time). The III may well have been a win for the Bull. Robinson-LaMotta V could have went to him as well.

Here's the thing. Duran had neither the speed, mobility, or jazz style of Robinson. He was more skilled, yes, but LaMotta's surges would neutralize that because Duran isn't going to fast-step around him like Sugar Ray. Duran's gonna be in the trenches right there with him. But guess what, Duran doesn't hit as hard as Robinson and Robinson could not dent him. Robinson went down at least twice under LaMotta's blows despite his great chin.

Duran is very strong (you don't fight bigger men as a matter of course unless you have a freakish constitution, like Walker, like Langford, like Greb). But LaMotta is stronger still. Duran isn't dropping or hurting LaMotta no matter what he does and he isn't going to fast-step around him either like Robinson.

Duran won't fight off the back foot: (1) it's not in his disposition and (2) LaMotta will rush him unceasingly and force him to fight.

This match will be between two bulls. There's no matador here. So take the stronger bull.

 

Duran spends nearly the whole fight on the ropes getting outworked.

 

LaMotta was apparently extremely impressive against Tony Janiro at 154-1/2, not at all weight drained, but especially well conditioned.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:24009

Janiro, being on on his back at the final bell, shows that Jake would have definitely produced a stoppage over the championship distance in their match.

One thing Hagler did extremely well against Duran was assert his size and strength. Being the bigger, stronger man, he stood his ground and repeatedly caused El Cholo to bounce back from mid-ring to the ropes to regain his footing and balance. I believe former amateur LHW LaMotta was physically stronger than Marv.

Under modern scoring, LaMotta-Janiro would be considerably more one sided than rounds scores of 8-1-1, 8-2 and 7-3 would suggest, by virtue of the knockdowns Jake produced in the opening and closing rounds. There was absolutely nothing embryonic about him by this stage. He was now an ATG about to turn 26, and had as much quality experience as any 25 year old has ever possessed.

No version of Duran beats the Raging Bull of Janiro over the championship distance.

Check Jake's record prior to Janiro, not the 63-10-3 total going in, but the names he had littered among those opponents. Utterly ridiculous. Roberto actually comes out on the short end of the experience stick here.

That LaMotta was so impressive with Janiro makes the idea of him keeping his weight under 155 throughout his career with proper discipline and restraint between bouts a tantalizing notion.

El Cholo wouldn't be able to hurt the Bronx boy much. Jake weathered Satterfield the year before. More and more, I think H2H at 154 is a bad idea for Duran. Again, whether or not LaMotta could retain full strength and stamina at this weight during his peak is NOT speculative, as Janiro shows.

 

Whoever is better conditioned wins the decision here .. likely LaMotta