Duran's Lightweight Status Is Overblown

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Ioakeim Tzortzakis, Jun 18, 2025.


  1. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Great analysis as always, Greg.
     
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  2. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks Jel, much appreciated.
     
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  3. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis "The David Haye of Loma's Gay" -Edgar Allan Poe Full Member

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    Yeah I can see why someone would prefer Duran over Canz. I'm still on the fence though, as I find Canzoneri's winning resume superior to Duran's by quite a lot. I value dominance myself, but Duran's record vs ranked men at 135 (so no Kobayashi or 140ers like Ortiz, Bizzaro, Thompson, Robertson etc) is like what, 9-1 ?

    Buchanan
    De Jesus x2
    Ishimatsu
    Fernandez
    Viruet x2
    Lampkin
    Garcia

    Obviously ATG worthy, and unless I discover something insane that I haven't noticed yet, probably safe to say a top 10 lock. 3 wins over arguably top 20 ATG lightweights, one over a very good champ in Ishimatsu and a standout contender in Fernandez. Though as I made clear in my original post, I find the rest very replaceable (aside from Garcia, who by that point had suffered more wear and tear than the planet itself in its 4 billion years :lol:). So while I do value dominance, I like it to be over consistently top/ranked opposition, which Duran did face, but half of them just happened not to be Lightweights. Though I will say that had Duran been a consistent 140 lber, he is the GOAT uncrowned champion of the division.

    Compare this to Canzoneri, who despite his losses, had an insanely deep resume at the poundage:

    Jack Kid Berg x2
    Kid Chocolate x2
    Lou Ambers
    Baby Arizmendi
    Al Singer
    Tommy Grogan x2
    Lew Massey
    Frankie Wallace
    Cleto Locatelli x2
    Johnny Jadick
    Frankie Klick x3
    Bobby Pacho
    Joe Ghounly
    Joe Glick
    Al Roth
    Battling Gizzy
    Steve Halaiko
    Leo Rodak

    That's 24 wins over ranked Lightweights, almost 3 times that of Duran's record vs ranked LWs and more than Loma's entire career (and there are perhaps some that I'm missing), and he has the best win between them in Ambers. His losses are quite a lot, and his draw with Al Singer puts his final record vs ranked opposition as 24-11-1. Way uglier looking than Duran's clean 9-1 to be certain. But factors such as the incredibly close nature of almost all those losses (especially the 2 Ross losses, the 2 Jadick losses and Mandell), the avengings (Berg x2, Petrolle), him just being at the end of his road (the last Ambers bout) or too young to be in his prime, and the fact that Canz's contenders are just plain greater than Duran's, and it's just too much for me to pick Duran with any confidence.

    Duran ruled as king in the Arctic ocean with 1 setback at one point, while Canzoneri battled the biggest monsters the Atlantic ocean had to offer, and despite quite a few failings, he came back stronger and beat some of the most hideous beasts the sea had to provide, and it provided him with a lot of them. So while I respect Duran's dominance over a small ocean, such a stacked resume of slain beasts may be too great to overlook despite the failures along the way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2025
  4. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good post.

    You make credible arguments that I respect.

    As I said, it's a matter of perspective and ranking criteria/values.

    For mine, I'm confident that their respective records and performances at LW give a strong indication that Duran was the better LW, brilliant as Canzernori surely was.

    If you are ranking purely or almost entirely based on depth of win resume, I can see a strong argument for having Canzernori higher, as you allude to with their respective number of wins over contenders.

    If you value dominance and separation from the field, even factoring in the relative merits or those fields, like I do, you'll likely have Duran higher.
     
  5. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Who has to defend Duran ? He seems to get deserved universal respect .. the question as I saw it was the caliber of opposition he fought at 135 and while it was solid with Buchanan and DeJesus that does top many other fighters .... I say again he really proved how great he was, how diverse, how fast , his body punching and feinting and defense when he moved up and fought bigger men he simply could not muscle and overpower .. I think many fighters fought much better competition at 135 ... I remember Duran when he was about to move up and the coverage was this maniac killer was moving up in weight ... no one commented on his skills outside of his Manson like stare , his mean nature and his power ...
     
  6. FThabxinfan

    FThabxinfan Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Duran's lightweight run being underrated is a new case I've heard for a Duran opinion so far.

    If I'm not wrong,Arcel favored Leonard.

    I agree,rankings in boxing for each people always differ because of their criterias.
     
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