Early 90s Tyson would wreck Liston in a slug fest

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Aug 2, 2020 at 9:43 AM.


  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What's all this talk about Liston wrecking Tyson in a slug fest? Tyson's chin was proven against more super heavyweight punchers than was Listons chin. He even withstood 8 rounds of being a punching bag for Lennox Lewis as a washed up fighter.

    The Tyson of the Ruddock fights would far and away be a very dangerous opponent for Liston and certainly no Cleveland Williams.
     
  2. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    It would be an interesting fight, but I'd pick Liston who had more stamina and was more well-rounded than Tyson, especially at this point. 1980s Tyson vs peak Liston would be an amazing fight.
     
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think if we are discussing who would wreck who I think it is important to first assess who was the more genuine wrecker of heavyweight fighters to start with.

    I think Sonny Liston was a devastating fighter, he certainly learned how to become one, but he did not start out as one. When we talk of the most devastating fighters usually they make waves in the industry from day one.

    In this regard, think it’s clear Tyson was more of the overnight sensation than Sonny was.

    In his first 16 fights Liston failed to make much of an impression. He’d won the National golden gloves, so the pedigree and backing was there from the start..but the summerlin and Marshall fights did not prove Sonny was yet more than an ordinary prospect. Then his career stalled for almost two years ...and he came back after his prison time as an almost completely different fighter.

    This time around Sonny was the instant sensation. Much was made of his underworld connections. Even so, He managed to reel off numerous sensational wins straight away. Valdes, DeJohn and Bethea wins were impressive second tier results. And then he mowed down Williams, Harris and Folley. It seems all it took was for him to have 16 fights and a prison term to eventually find his mojo.

    However in a sports illustrated article ahead of the Patterson fights I found this.

    Telephone company records indicate that one of Liston's opponents called John Vitale several times just before he was knocked out by Liston. There is speculation among highly qualified boxing men that several of Sonny's opponents have taken dives, no doubt without Sonny's knowledge. One well-placed boxing official suspects at least six fights were fixed. But Sonny certainly looked good when he defeated Zora Folley last July, a fight which no one questions. His dreary win over Eddie Machen last fall did not, however, enhance his reputation”

    Also, ahead of his title fight Sonny’s first trainer felt Sonny always had a limited window to Ever make it as a champion:

    “If they give him the title fight within a year and a half, I favor Liston. Otherwise, it's Patterson. Liston'll be too big, too old later on."

    As it turned out, Harrison predicted right. Sonny did indeed beat Patterson and it is interesting that after the “year and a half window” Sonny did appear too old in the Ali fights.

    Tyson started first time out the way Liston did on the second attempt. Sure they lined everyone up for mike to knock over but he was always impressive. Jesse Ferguson, Tillis, Ribalta, Green and Frazier were enough to land a fight with the first contender Tyson fought who had a alphabet title and he steamrolled Berbick when he got that chance.

    I don’t recognise Tucker or Smith as champions but they did present a step toward the champion Michael Spinks who Tyson also demolished.

    I believe the point Tyson reached Spinks must represent where Sonny had got by the time he beat Patterson. Yet by then Tyson had taken out Frank Bruno and Tyrell Biggs as well as old retreads like Tubbs Thomas and a dug up Larry Holmes which together must eclipse Sonny’s wins over Machen Harris and Folley.

    Interestingly the knocked out champions Floyd and Spinks are Two comparable results. Where Both victims looked visibly intimidated, yet of the two, Spinks was at least an unbeaten champion.

    I would pick Sonny to beat all of the men Tyson beat on the way to Michael Spinks..but I just feel that getting them all in a row like that was actually more good wins than Sonny was ever able to do in real life. I think Sonny was limited to fewer wins like this. Monroe Harrison was really onto something there.

    ultimately, this I believe makes Tyson slightly more proven. I also don’t believe Sonny could have withstood the kind of beating against Douglas as Tyson did even if it cannot be proven that Douglas necessarily second thinks Sonny so well as he was able to mesmerise Tyson.

    I cannot therefore believe there is ever a Strong case that one of two similar type of champions is guaranteed to “wreck” the other. I just don’t.

    But I certainly put Tyson a tad ahead of Liston. He has the pedigree here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020 at 5:51 AM
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  4. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Lol why Lori Lightfoot for the avatar?
    You never fail to surprise
     
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  5. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Great fight but I have it as a toss-up in total war. Both can hit hard as we know. Both had good stamina, but Tyson's was better. Tyson was also much faster and more mobile. On the other hand Liston has a far better jab and a better chin. Tyson could outbox Liston for a decision. In a slugfest I would pick Liston early by TKO.
     
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  6. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Liston DID NOT hit hard enough to early TKO Tyson. Stopping Williams, Harris, Patterson and Bethea early does not translate into stopping Tyson early nor does it translate into hitting harder than Bruno, Ruddock or Lewis. If Razor landed a clean smash on any of the above named, a stoppage would be likely.

    Liston would have to pound on Tyson over a long period of time while eating return fire from another ATG HW puncher. Not saying a Liston win is impossible, but I'd back Tyson in a slug fest. Even though Williams hit hard, Tyson's power was proven against higher tier opponents.
     
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  7. TheWorstEver(TWE)

    TheWorstEver(TWE) Member Full Member

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    Tyson would be intimidated by Liston IMO. We've already seen how Tyson performs when he's intimidated, see Holyfield 2. Forget the headbutts & concentrate on round 1. I reckon Tyson starts looking for a place to lie down by round 6. Tyson can match Liston athletically & he had a great chin but he didn't have the mental fortitude to overcome someone like Liston, or Foreman for that matter.
     
  8. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think both of them liked to intimidate their opponents. Both were masters at it. I think they would see that in each other because It’s hard to say which one might psychologically crack first if they both start pulling scary faces at each other.

    I think there is a chance that they both see through it without it getting to either of them. But you never know, perhaps one of them will sense the other is his master?

    who knows, Not being able to put the scare on an opponent might actually put either of them off. The stare down could be important here!
     
  10. TheWorstEver(TWE)

    TheWorstEver(TWE) Member Full Member

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    Yeah exactly.
     
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  11. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Liston was a master at dealing with come forward fighters.

    He knew how to create a killing field for them to walk onto.

    I know that Patterson was a lot smaller than Tyson, but just look at what he did to Patterson.

    If he had a guy who came straight at him, then he was right in his comfort zone.

    This makes me think that Liston might well win!
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    It’s worth noting how well Tyson threaded those counters inside the jab, Listons major tool.

    prime Tyson was fast at sliding either side. He wanted jabs to come at him. The speed at which Tyson timed getting either side of long jabs was best demonstrated against Biggs..who he was able to out jab with such a much shorter reach.

    I get what you are saying about Floyd. A smaller Tyson. But against Sonny, Floyd was not just a smaller Tyson, it has been said Floyd was also a frozen and psyched out version of himself. and coming off the three fight multi knockdown suffering series with Ingo.
     
  13. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    lol
     
  14. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think you put it best here Jan!
     
  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tyson's chin was more proven than Liston's? Both men had excellent chins but as far as being proven, I think Liston takes it seeing as he was only legitimately stopped once as a 40 something ill coke addict. Tyson lost 5 times, and was knocked out in all 5, the latter 2 by bums (though Tyson was done at the point). I can't see any version of Liston getting knocked out or quitting against McBride and Williams.
     


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