Early 90s Tyson would wreck Liston in a slug fest

Of course they would have. Look at Williams best wins. And for all his power having 190 pound Billy Daniels last the distance. And yet, Marciano, Walcott and Moore (fresh off a win over Valdez) would not have beaten Williams? I don't buy it.

 

Marciano's record creams over Williams record. All of the washed up has beens were top tier fighters at least. Williams record consisted of knocking over mostly never beens and fringe contenders.

Sorry, but I'm not convinced he'd ever have been a problem for Ali. Maybe in theory, not in practice. If he was that awesome, he should have been dominating, like Liston was, all along. Beating the likes of 20-10 Alonzo Johnson, 22-13 Wayne Bethea, 23-8 Alex Miteff, 13-10 Ernie Cab (those are some of his prime wins) and drawing with Machen just doesn't give me faith in his chances over Ali and Marciano, I don't care how many on paper advantages he held over either of them. Just doesn't seem like it'd transfer to the ring come fight night.

 

We already went over Terrell. And beating Holman in his last fight and the great Roger Rischer still doesn't give me faith in his ability to beat Rocky. Billy Daniels went 10 rounds with the great Cleveland Williams, absorbing clean shots along the way. Rocky stops him. It's funny how no one in those days when he was fighting, picked Williams to beat Rocky nor did they think if Williams was in his prime 10 years earlier, he'd have been champion. He at best was a good contender at a time when the average HW was 6' 185 pounds and it was common for top contenders to fight at both HW and LHW while he was 6'3 215 pounds. If he was so good, so fast and so powerful, why wasn't he champion at a time when most heavies were 200 and under? Why didn't any of his contemporaries pick him to have defeated prime Marciano? Why didn't any of his contemporaries pick him to have been champion or dominated pre 1950s eras?

 

Daniels was undefeated barring a loss to the greatest of all time in which he gave a fairly good effort prior to fighting Williams. Williams effictively ruined him as he only picked up5 wins after their first encounter in the remainder of his career, only one of which was against a world-class oppenent in Doug Jones (actually right before his one-sided rematch with Williams) ""punishing billy daniels so much in a 10-round decision that Daniels has never been the same fighter since" https://www.newspapers.com/clip/57246919/simpsons-leader-times/

Untrue many including Bob Satterfield rated him as a potential champion. "Satterfield was very impressed with Williams and rated him as a potential champion. " https://www.newspapers.com/clip/510...msTGHDA4kkoOhgjXxbKfW6Ja0z5E6sKHcgwvV_TdLXYZc As for none of his contemporaries picking Williams to beat Marciano
1. Fighters aren't given any respect until the dust settles on their career. That's a known fact. It's why Ali wasn't referred to as the GOAT universally until years after his retirement and why Marciano was seen as contemporaries as inferior to Dempsey in terms of accomplishments.

2. I don't care what contemporaries say about whether or not Williams beats Marciano. Most of them were nostalgic anyways and Rocky was one of the more popular champions.

At best he was among the elite in the division (before he was shot at least) which is why he went 12 years without being clearly defeated by anybody except a prime Sonny Liston and why he "drew" with the highest ranked heavyweight, not named Sonny Liston which many thought he'd won comfortably


Gee I don't know, maybe because the Champion at the time was actively avoiding him among anyone with a pulse including Liston, Valdez, Machen, and Folley. Other contenders weren't exactly keen to step in the ring with him as he was very feared.by them. Janitor puts it best




As for when Patterson lost the belt, the following two champions were a prime Liston and Ali whom Williams would likely have never beaten. Their is no shame in that, as they are very possibly the best H2H heavyweights (imo they are I might replace Liston with Louis).

He actually earned a title shot after beating Daniels against Terrell in a trilogy (which you wouldn't know because you don't know jack **** about Williams or boxing in general) in a very winnable fight for the WBA championship which I believe he would've won. Unfortunately a .357 magnum killed any chances of Williams picking up any title or even being a shadow of the fighter he once was.[/QUOTE]
I don't care. I and many others think Rocky poleaxes Williams and that's that.

Young Jack Johnson He lasted 10 rounds. He also LOST 2 fights prior to Williams. Please point out the significance of a guy landing 3 straight losses?

Cleveland in his ENTIRE career only fought about 11 guys over 215 lbs. He stopped only half and they weren't that good at all

 

Daniels was undefeated barring a loss to the greatest of all time in which he gave a fairly good effort prior to fighting Williams. Williams effictively ruined him as he only picked up5 wins after their first encounter in the remainder of his career, only one of which was against a world-class oppenent in Doug Jones (actually right before his one-sided rematch with Williams) ""punishing billy daniels so much in a 10-round decision that Daniels has never been the same fighter since" https://www.newspapers.com/clip/57246919/simpsons-leader-times/

Untrue many including Bob Satterfield rated him as a potential champion. "Satterfield was very impressed with Williams and rated him as a potential champion. " https://www.newspapers.com/clip/510...msTGHDA4kkoOhgjXxbKfW6Ja0z5E6sKHcgwvV_TdLXYZc As for none of his contemporaries picking Williams to beat Marciano
1. Fighters aren't given any respect until the dust settles on their career. That's a known fact. It's why Ali wasn't referred to as the GOAT universally until years after his retirement and why Marciano was seen as contemporaries as inferior to Dempsey in terms of accomplishments.

2. I don't care what contemporaries say about whether or not Williams beats Marciano. Most of them were nostalgic anyways and Rocky was one of the more popular champions.

At best he was among the elite in the division (before he was shot at least) which is why he went 12 years without being clearly defeated by anybody except a prime Sonny Liston and why he "drew" with the highest ranked heavyweight, not named Sonny Liston which many thought he'd won comfortably


Gee I don't know, maybe because the Champion at the time was actively avoiding him among anyone with a pulse including Liston, Valdez, Machen, and Folley. Other contenders weren't exactly keen to step in the ring with him as he was very feared.by them. Janitor puts it best




As for when Patterson lost the belt, the following two champions were a prime Liston and Ali whom Williams would likely have never beaten. Their is no shame in that, as they are very possibly the best H2H heavyweights (imo they are I might replace Liston with Louis).

He actually earned a title shot after beating Daniels against Terrell in a trilogy (which you wouldn't know because you don't know jack **** about Williams or boxing in general) in a very winnable fight for the WBA championship which I believe he would've won. Unfortunately a .357 magnum killed any chances of Williams picking up any title or even being a shadow of the fighter he once was.[/QUOTE]
Archie Moore had way more quality wins at HW, including Roger and beat Valdez immediately prior to fighting Rocky and he still lost. No one that Williams ever beat indicates he beats Rocky.

 

Moores resume >>>>Williams resume at heavyweight
Marciano beat Moore. No one Williams beat proves he beats Marciano.

 

Oh and

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No way he would quickly beat Tyson, if he beat him at all. Tyson isn't Cleveland Williams or Zora Folley, two guys Tyson would plow through with relative ease BTW.