Early gloved boxing: Australian school Vs American school

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Jan 21, 2019.


Page 1 of 2
  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    8,584
    11,099
    Oct 28, 2017
    I've noticed that many people see the early American gloved boxers as basically bareknuckle boxers, while the Austalians were much more modern and evolved for gloved boxing. I think the truth is pretty much the opposite. The Australians were certainly well schooled, especially in defence, and even more so footwork, which you'd expect from being taught by a master boxer like Jem Mace. But Mace was a bareknuckle boxer, as was Larry Folley, the other main one. As you'd expect then the style they taught was very much a bareknuckle one, one of straight punching.

    The Americans meanwhile, though not generally as well taught, adapted much of MoQ styles, taking advantage of the gloves to use more round punches, like hooks, and uppercuts. Gloves made these easier to get power into, mad you less likely to injure your hand throwing them, and the reduction in grappling made getting in close to throw them a more viable strategy.

    But was the American style really better for gloved boxing? I think the evidence suggests yes. Dan Creedon said that while Jem Mace taught him the left hook it was Joe Choynski who really taught him how to use it. This was no small change in his style, as he became a full on left hook specialist, which was well suited to gloved boxing and Creedon's natural attributes. Bob Fitzsimmons too adapted more round punching, often using them as parts of traps, which was a key part in his victory over Corbett.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 21, 2019
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 21, 2019
    #1
    The Senator and The Undefeated Lachbuster like this.
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,582
    27,243
    Feb 15, 2006
    The Australian style seems to be closer to what is practiced today.

    Perhaps this is because the sport largely emerged in the Queensbury era in Australia.
     
    janitor, Jan 21, 2019
    janitor, Jan 21, 2019
    #2
  3. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    8,584
    11,099
    Oct 28, 2017
    I think it's pretty close to our idea of fundementals, and I think good defence, footwork and straight punching (with a fighter with the right talents), is going to do well in any era, but there are plenty of later and modern fighters who made a lot more use of round blows
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 21, 2019
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 21, 2019
    #3
  4. Ph33rknot

    Ph33rknot Live as if you were to die tomorrow Full Member

    22,765
    22,648
    Mar 5, 2012
    Now I wonder who introduced mex to boxing who where the pioneers
     
    Ph33rknot, Jan 21, 2019
    Ph33rknot, Jan 21, 2019
    #4
  5. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    8,584
    11,099
    Oct 28, 2017
    There were a good few early fights in Mexico to avoid the legal situation, so that might have been how it spread there, but I really don't know.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 21, 2019
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 21, 2019
    #5
  6. Ph33rknot

    Ph33rknot Live as if you were to die tomorrow Full Member

    22,765
    22,648
    Mar 5, 2012
    I just r
    Just read up on it pancho villa actually started it all the first mex tittle was heald in cuba jack Johnson
     
    Ph33rknot, Jan 21, 2019
    Ph33rknot, Jan 21, 2019
    #6
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,737
    29,086
    Jun 2, 2006
    There is a story about Foley about how he visited Johnson's training camp, I can't remember which fight he was training for.In conversation Johnson said he liked his opponents to lead to him,Foley who apparently had something of a short fuse said something to the effect of," well what if he refuses to lead?" Johnson said,"oh I can make any man lead to me".Foley disputed this, and the upshot was they had an impromptu spar in front of those that had come to watch Johnson.Foley determined not to respond or initiate any attack,after a few minutes of farcical feinting Johnson grinned and said something to Foley who immediately began throwing real punches which Johnson parried and blocked with ease. Johnson had a huge grin on his face, and Foley realised he had fallen head first into Johnson's trap.
     
    mcvey, Jan 22, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 22, 2019
    #7
    young griffo and BitPlayerVesti like this.
  8. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,979
    627
    Sep 22, 2013
    Because of his contributions to the sport of boxing, I think that Larry Foley should be inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
    Chuck1052, Jan 23, 2019
    Chuck1052, Jan 23, 2019
    #8
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, mcvey and BitPlayerVesti like this.
  9. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    8,584
    11,099
    Oct 28, 2017
    I'd agree there. Especially considering some of the people who are in.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 24, 2019
    BitPlayerVesti, Jan 24, 2019
    #9
    Chuck1052 and mcvey like this.
  10. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,968
    2,411
    Jul 11, 2005
    They don't have either of Dowlings who had done more for boxing than any other non-participant in 19th century, including Richard K. Fox and Pierce Egan.
     
    Senya13, Jan 24, 2019
    Senya13, Jan 24, 2019
    #10
    BitPlayerVesti and mcvey like this.
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,737
    29,086
    Jun 2, 2006
    No question !
     
    mcvey, Jan 24, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 24, 2019
    #11
    Chuck1052 likes this.
  12. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,619
    1,887
    Dec 2, 2006
    The early and rare interaction between the two areas were interesting. William Miller seems to have been as any of the 1875-1880's Americans and when Choynski and Burke went down below they beat the second tier but came up short against the top men. Hall, McCarthy, o'Donnell, Smith had mixed results in the States but on balance Slavin, Goddard, Fitz and Jackson proved better than their American equivalents so kudos to Foley, Mace and Miller.
     
    mattdonnellon, Jan 24, 2019
    mattdonnellon, Jan 24, 2019
    #12
  13. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,979
    627
    Sep 22, 2013
    Jack Hurley, a truly great all-around boxing man, and Frank Churchill, the virtual father of boxing in Philippines, also have not been inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
    Chuck1052, Jan 24, 2019
    Chuck1052, Jan 24, 2019
    #13
  14. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,619
    1,887
    Dec 2, 2006
    Hall of Fame seems to be an American thing in so far as it has little or no value to Europeans as far as I can see. Certainly Foley should be in there on merit.
     
    mattdonnellon, Jan 24, 2019
    mattdonnellon, Jan 24, 2019
    #14
    BitPlayerVesti and mcvey like this.
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,737
    29,086
    Jun 2, 2006
    Hurley should be in there if the HOF is to mean anything, which to me it really doesn't tbh.
     
    mcvey, Jan 24, 2019
    mcvey, Jan 24, 2019
    #15
Page 1 of 2