Earnie Shavers & Cleveland Williams: Who Da Man?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009.


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  1. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fellas,

    We all know former heavyweight fighters like Earnie Shavers and Cleveland Williams were big punchers who were flawed in the chin and skill department but, question is, who would win between these two sluggers in a time machine and who would've emerged as the better fighter and possible world champion, had they both fought in different era's from the one they each fought in.????

    Cleveland Williams was clearly held-back and doomed by being active in an era that featured Sonny Liston and Muhammad Ali..... Had Liston or Ali never existed, Williams MIGHT'VE been a champion.....

    Same goes for Earnie Shavers....... Shavers was groomed by Don King to be world champion in 1973, but after Shavers got stopped by Jerry Quarry in late 1973, it became more so into view that Shavers lacked something special..... Several more losses would follow before Shavers would make two worthy but losing efforts at capturing the title against Ali and Larry Holmes......

    Q:

    Who's the better pound-4-pound fighter---Williams or Shavers?? Who wins between Williams of 1960 and Shavers of 1973???
    :huh:yep:bbb

    MR.BILL:rasta
     
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    #1
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Obviously this is not the sort of fight you would want to bet on.

    For my money Williams had a shade the better chin and was less liable to fail over the distance.

    This makes me say Williams.
     
    janitor, Sep 6, 2009
    janitor, Sep 6, 2009
    #2
  3. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree 100%......... You know, many people laugh at me when I have praised Cleve Williams in the past as being a very good heavyweight...... I know a few posters on the ESB front page who've literally tore up Williams' abilities in the ring...... I say Williams has been underrated.....

    Earnie Shavers gets his just due...... Shavers was a "Kill or be Killed" kinda' fighter.......... Though he did prove he could box a bit when pitted against a "B" or "C" level opponent.......

    I think Williams out-lasts Shavers and wins by later round KO.......:bbb

    MR.BILL
     
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    #3
  4. rm36

    rm36 Active Member Full Member

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    I'll go with Williams. Losing to Sonny Liston, really is nothing to be ashamed of. I thought there were moments where he was really opening up on Sonny nicely. His other earlier KO loss to Satterfield, another big puncher, is also understandable. I think, at his best, he'd be that little bit better than Shavers to take him out.
     
    rm36, Sep 6, 2009
    rm36, Sep 6, 2009
    #4
  5. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Cleveland Williams. I think he's actually a bit underrated. His boxing skills are definitely superior to Shavers and I prefer his durability. I feel he's far less one dimensional than Earnie, and if need be it can fight in the later rounds better than Shavers. Shavers could get lucky because power is one his side but Williams proved himself to be able to stand toe to toe and somewhat box well with Liston for the time being. Things didn't last very long for him there but Liston talked him up saying how everyone feared Cleveland.
     
    PetethePrince, Sep 6, 2009
    PetethePrince, Sep 6, 2009
    #5
  6. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Plus, people also gotta realize that Liston had to land an all out assault on Williams to get the job done............ Williams ate a lot of leather in them two fights that went 2 to 3 rds each............

    Now, I know Texas Cobb ain't the hardest puncher of all-time, but he could punch for a big redneck cowboy....... I reviewd "Cobb-Shavers" last night, and by the 7th and 8th rds, Cobb was hitting Shavers at will from left and right field........ Shavers took it, but got halted anyway.......

    MR.BILL:bbb
     
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    #6
  7. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Shavers had a fairly solid chin in my opinion and a lot of heart. I'm not sure if he had ever been hit hard previous to fighting Jerry Quarry and even then it took a barrage of punches to stop the defenseless Shavers. Most of his losses were late round batterings when he had ran out of gas.

    Look at the Roy "Tiger" Williams and Jeff Sims bouts for some miraculous Shavers comebacks.

    Both of these fighters came to throw bombs so it's essentially a 50-50 fight. Williams had the much faster handspeed and might get there earlier but Shavers could always sneak in his powerful right over Cleveland's low left.
     
    TheGreatA, Sep 6, 2009
    TheGreatA, Sep 6, 2009
    #7
  8. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I remember Shavers getting decked by Jeff Sims in the Bahamas back in '81......... Shavers got up to stop Sims......... A good fight......

    MR.BILL
     
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    #8
  9. Bill1234

    Bill1234 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Whoever lands the first clean shot. Both of them will badly hurt the other if they land clean, and after they land clean they will most likely follow up with a barrage of punches and stop the other one, or get hit solid and the momentum will turn. Solid match up.
     
    Bill1234, Sep 6, 2009
    Bill1234, Sep 6, 2009
    #9
  10. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    My guess is that "Shavers-Williams" goes no more than 6 rds tops.............. By then, the bombs have landed and exploded...........

    SR.BILLARDO
     
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    #10
  11. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    You're right on both counts, but the biggest factor for me is that Shavers still hits hard enough to ice Williams- it becomes less a matter of chin vs chin, and more of chin vs power. And, in this case, each man hits hard enough to take the other out.

    I'd only bet on two things: the under, and that it'd be an entertaining bout to watch until it ended.
     
    Rock0052, Sep 6, 2009
    Rock0052, Sep 6, 2009
    #11
  12. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Granted, both do indeed hit hard enough to ice each other....... The factor is hand speed...... Williams has the edge there.......

    MR.BILL:deal
     
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    #12
  13. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    hand speed and technique: mechanically williams was very sound in his prime. his technique was underrated and he showed glimpses of being a solid boxer throughout his career, even in the losses to liston. he edges shavers here as well and he'd be able to outbox the acorn and actually land his punches more often and more effectively based on this advantage
     
    Jorodz, Sep 6, 2009
    Jorodz, Sep 6, 2009
    #13
  14. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    SO! Thus far, the consensus is that Shavers would prolly get his ass KO'd by Williams...... I'll buy that.......

    MR.BILL
     
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    MRBILL, Sep 6, 2009
    #14
  15. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    :lol:sucks to say but yeah...shavers hit harder, williams hit (and was) better
     
    Jorodz, Sep 6, 2009
    Jorodz, Sep 6, 2009
    #15
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