Earnie Shavers from 1979 vs Ernie Terrell from 1965, 15 rounds.

Earnie had trouble reaching the head of super durable Tiger Williams, but if 5'11" Thad Spencer could put Terrell on the deck, then Shavers could certainly do it. Terrell kept his hands up well, but Shavers would be blasting his right to Terrell's body, a much thinner physique than the 6'5" 230 pound Tiger had.

Not much of an issue for Earnie, who won round 14 on all cards over Ali and was at his best in terms of stamina at this time. Shavers had a number of late round KDs, and a fine win over the distance in Henry Clark I. His bombs to Terrell's body offset Ernie's experience over the Championship Distance. After they both gas, Shavers will retain the firepower necessary to take Terrell out.

Keep in mind that Shavers had a fine hard jab. It's no given that Terrell's jab was superior.

 

Spencer and Terrell exchanged KDs in that one. I thought it was very, very close. Who do you think won it? (I didn't score as I was viewing it. I just wanted to see if Spencer deserved to be the favorite in that tournament, and curious to see Babe in a winning effort. Jerry Quarry really took him to school in Jerry's best filmed performance, and Thad never won again in his remaining nine bouts.)

 

Ali was friendly with Terrell by the early 1970's and receptive to a rematch after Bonavena, but that notion was clearly ended after Wepner and Merritt in 1973. Wepner then got the first shot at Ali after he dethroned Foreman. I think a Terrell rematch would have garnered greater interest after Ernie took peak Ali the distance in 1967. Terrell won his first seven bouts of the 1970's after a hiatus virtually as long as Ali's exile.

 

Terrell was never the same after that beating Ali gave him imo.

 

Terrell jabs and grabs his way to a boring UD or late TKO on an exhausted Shavers 8 times out of 10. The other two times, Shavers gets past those octopus arms and pummels Terrell for a KO.

 

Yeah, IF Earnie can break free from those tentacles momentarily to land just a few blockbusters, it could be over right then and there.

Breaking free is the big problem and as Swag @swagdelfadeel said, that might only be achievable for Earnie 2 times out of 10.

However, if one of the permutations sees Earnie using his 20% strike rate, turning the trick, back to back, for matches 1 and 2, he might wreck and sufficiently soften up Terrell for Shavers to win most of the remaining 8 fights.

For his physical assets and the clean boxing skills that he did display, it seems Terrell perhaps could’ve been that much better than he was.

His record also reflects a pretty decent chin.

However, the irony maybe that his awful spoiling style was to protect a chin that he knew perhaps wouldn’t stand up when truly cracked.

I think it was round 7 when Ali himself badly hurt Terrell and had him going. That only served to see Ernie shell up even more for the purpose of seeing the final bell.

I’ve said it before ad nauseam but if Ali had gone to the body more, at least for that fight, primarily to bring the high guard down, I think he could’ve seen Ernie off.

Still, we got to see Ali doing his thing for a whole 15 rounds, it was rinse repeat, round after round, of the stunning volleys that Ali laid on Cleveland Williams in less than 3 rounds - so seeing Ali do same over the old school long haul with the stamina to sustain the output and mobility to the very end certainly wasn’t a bad thing.

A stupendous performance.

 

It's exasperating making a case for Earnie over Ernie with all these automatic stereotypes against the true qualities of Shavers, but here goes again.

Watching Liston-Williams I & II, I just don't see the Big Cat's hook prevailing over Earnie's monstrous rights to the body (let alone both Earnie's hooks and rights on Big Cat's chin), and Henry Clark rated Earnie as a far harder puncher than Liston. Cleveland couldn't reach the amateur limit TWICE with Sonny. He did take Terrell out in seven, and Shavers could definitely bring it for seven from 1975 to 1979 (when he stopped both Roy Williams and Rochelle Norris in ten), he decisioned Henry Clark in ten (plus Rondon for his first major win) and won the 14th on all cards over Ali, and decked the Assassin in round seven with the hardest punch of his career, a shot Terrell definitely could never have gotten up from, all before he face planted Tillis in nine).

Yeah, yeah, we all know Lyle barely survived round two (saved at the bell before Shavers could hit him again when action would have resumed) to rally over Earnie, who not only punched himself out, but did it AT ALTITUDE in Big Ron's own Denver. (We also know that on camera years after he retired, Shavers called Lyle the hardest puncher he'd ever been hit by, and Ron went through rounds three to five countering off the ropes, something nobody else could make prime Lyle do, including Foreman.)

Terrell lacked a knockout punch, and it took Jerry Quarry nearly 60 punches to bring Shavers down from the moment JQ hurt him, and Jerry had one punch power in each hand. Terrell would HAVE to go the distance to beat Shavers. Again, you're taking about a 6'6" target weighing 212 pounds, not a 6'5" target like the 230 pound Tiger who was never floored or stopped by anyone else. Terrell was at his most damaging when taking on a significantly smaller opponent like Bob Foster.

During the earlier phase of his career, Terrell often produced first round KDs. Try that on Shavers, you're getting your head knocked off unless your name is Jerry Quarry (a slab chested iron chinned trigger fisted beast only dominated by Ali's best performance from 1972 to 1974 while in his prime).

Ernie Terrell's best chance would have come in 1965-1966 when he won three consecutive times over the Championship Distance, but Shavers was no Eddie Machen, Doug Jones or George Chuvalo. Shavers, at 6'0" had an 80 inch reach. There's a still photograph of him outreaching the Holmes jab with his own during their rematch, and the Shavers jab was highly praised. Terrell didn't have the mobility of a Holmes, Ali, Tillis or even Mercado. Shavers proved with Ali he could pace himself for the Championship Distance, something Foreman never proved. With that kind of conditioning and pacing, Shavers would definitely have the necessary late round firepower to end Terrell in the Championship Rounds.

Yet once again, Earnie's stamina and late round power was far more proved than first career Foreman's, who never produced a knockdown beyond round five. Holmes was exhausted at the end of their rematch.

As for the alleged weak chin of Shavers, in his first 86 bouts (everybody ignores Brian Yates in fight 91 when Earnie was around half a century old), he was decked a grand total of just six times, and it usually took an essential punching himself out at altitude (since winning a decision over Lyle in Denver is stupid), or on a steel chinned Stander (who also rated Shavers a ridiculously harder puncher than Frazier, O'Halloran [a win by Stander], peak 1973 Merritt or 1976 Coetzee).

Stander [for the count in 5 when he was only 12-1], JQ [after nearly 60 punches], Stallings [in round 9, but Earnie got up to finish], Lyle [for the count - ignore BoxWreck], the huge and deadly Mercado [but Bernardo had to get off the deck himself, and Earnie was on his feet when that was waved off], and the powerful Jeff Sims [being compared to Liston at the time, this was the only time a single punch put Shavers on the deck and Earnie got up to stop Jeff in the definitive comeback win of his career, the one time he was not the frontrunning winner in a significant bout on the Ali-Berbick undercard - Stallings dropped Earnie with two chopping rights]. Shavers was stopped by Cobb and in Holmes II without hitting the deck.

Shavers can be argued for as having a far better chin than Morrison (especially considering there was no Bentt in Earnie's career) and being more accomplished over longer distances than Tommy. Earnie did have arms like clubs, explaining in part why he tired so easily, but he was lethal till after the end against anybody not named Ali. The power of Shavers in Holmes II remained such late that a non scoring right off the ropes to the shoulder bowled Larry back to the floor in round 9. When Holmes stopped him, it was with an exhausted but very cautious attack.

Earnie's hook was responsible for putting Jimmy Young on the deck in both their bouts, something nobody else ever did to Young. (It was also that hook which induced Lyle to famously say, "He hit me and the ground came up!") Terrell would have more than Earnie's right to worry about.

 

[QUOTE="Richard M Murrieta, post: 22299287, member: 121157"t ]Cleveland Big Cat Williams did stop Terrell in round 7 in April 1962 but suffered a loss to Terrell in April 1963 by a split decision.[/QUOTE]

And this informs my view regarding a single bout outcome versus rematches in a multiple bout series. I just don't see Terrell surviving a one time meeting with Shavers, but Ernie proved he could prevail with that learning experience behind him with Big Cat.

Shavers had two career opportunities to do this, with Jimmy Young and Larry Holmes. Both times, his rematch performances weren't beneficial after the first encounters, and his confidence was sky high after Norton. .

 

I'll say this much. Neither Liston, Terrell, or Williams would've lost to the likes of Bob Stallings or been knocked out in a round by Quarry.