Earnie Shavers' Power Quotes- An Explanation

yea and Lennox is the hardest hitting outboxer who hit with great tech which I would say he hit way harder then earn to cause of tech but you will say I'm wrong cause quotes dont back it up

wlad did hit hard to neither one of these guys are overrated though as hitting real hard your putting more in

 

When we are talking about "power" on this thread, we just mean the force of the punch. Damage is evidence that the punch is hard, but not all hard punches are damaging.

If you hit somebody's arm or shoulder with a really hard punch, it might not damage them much.

 

Is that the ONLY reason I'll disagree? Just because quotes don't back it up?

Or do you think I would have more than one reason?

 

I dont know any other reason you wouldnt argee

 

I still never seen earn cause fear from his sig punch or the amount of damage like dave did from like 1 or 2 grazed or clean shots from that sig punch have you

 

You're saying that Shavers wasn't a huge puncher because Larry and Ali both took his "signature" punch more than once, and didn't get knocked out.

That's your argument. I think I understand it. I just disagree with it.

I disagree with it because you're using a double standard. You are holding Shavers to a different standard than other punchers.

For example: Wlad.

Wlad was a monster puncher. Wlad hit Samuel Peter with LOTS AND LOTS of "signature punches." Wlad didn't even knock Peter down in that first fight. By the standard you just used with Shavers, that would mean Wlad wasn't a huge puncher either.

 

What about the other reasons I gave you?

How about my argument that Foreman hit harder than Lennox?

How about Shavers's ability to knock people down / out despite not having Lennox's skill?

What about the fact that Lennox hit Oliver McCall over and over again with "signature" punches, and McCall didn't drop?

 

I don't understand.

You don't like quotes because they're just an opponent's opinion.

But part of your test for power is whether the opponent looks afraid?

Isn't being afraid just a fighter's opinion as well?

 

Okay, @moneytheman12, take a look at @Glass City Cobra's post above.

Loads of fighters took more than 8 punches each from the best punchers of the 90s and 2000s.

So if Shavers isn't the hardest puncher because he couldn't knock Ali down with 8 punches, then NONE of the 90s or 2000s punchers are the hardest puncher, either.

 

But you don't think Lennox was a god, even though you believe he is the hardest hitting outboxer so far.

We are similar.

We don't think Shavers was a god, either, even though we do believe he was the hardest hitting heavyweight so far.

Neither of us believes that boxers are gods.

 

Yeah I can dismiss stopping Roy Williams because we have virtually nothing to compare him with in terms of world class opponents.
Roy Williams shared an era with Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Lyle, etc none of whom he fought. If he had fought Frazier or Quarry and had been stopped suddenly Shavers stopping him is a lot less impressive. It's no great feat for Shavers to stop a guy who didn't face the other punchers of the era or virtually any other world class opponents.

Young wasn't in his prime when he faced Shavers the first time so its not really relevant and when he rematched a more experienced Young suddenly his power wasn't such a factor. And its reasonable to note the Bugner stoppage was due to a cut and moreover that Bugner was out of shape and past his prime so not really comparable to the version of Bugner that faced Frazier, Lyle, etc. If that's shifting the goalposts than I think its warranted.

I don't see anything on Shavers record or on film to indicate he hit harder than Cooney. His fights against common opponents certainly don't favor Shavers. I suspect Cooney and Ruddock may well have hit harder than Shavers.

 

Also its worth pointing out that the version of Ali that Shavers faced was far past his prime. I think there are definitely heavyweights who would have stopped that version of Ali.

I think someone like Wladimir Klitschko could brutally kayo the 1977 version of Ali

 

Cooney and Shavers both had the high stoppage percentages.

Shavers knocked Larry Holmes down. Cooney did not. Cooney has a stoppage over an old Young. Shavers has a stoppage over a young Young, and KD'd another Young. Cooney did better against a way past-it Lyle. Even so, Shavers hurt prime Lyle quite badly. But Shavers also KD'd or KO'd a whole bunch of other decent people Cooney didn't.

Shavers also has the "quotes" from a nearly overlapping group of people to Cooney's era.

Cooney was a very, very hard puncher. Maybe also a better fighter. But I think the balance favors Shavers in terms of power.

 

Who are all these decent fighters Shavers kayoed? By my reckoning the only top 10 heavyweights Shavers beat were Jimmy Ellis and Ken Norton although Jimmy Ellis maybe should have been dropped from the rankings by that point. Cooney's only top 10 win is Ken Norton so Shavers only barely has him beat in that regard. Shavers is ahead in sheer number of wins but most of these guys weren't even journeyman/gatekeeper level.

Cooney seemed to deal more decisively with journeyman/gatekeeper types

 

You are shifting the goal post.

You claimed plenty of other boxers stopped shaver's KO victims faster than him. I gave you at least 5-6 examples proving this isn't true.

And no you can't dismiss shavers being the only person to KO someone. Doesn't work like that. You're upset because it goes against your narrative.

He knocked Young down in the rematch, so how was his power "not relevant"? Serious question: Do you think before you post? Young was a slippery defensive genius who made adjustments to survive. Shavers not being able to stop a better version of Young in a rematch doesn't mean his power is a myth.

You are doing everything in your power to discredit Shavers. First, it's young was too inexperienced, now it's Bugner had too much experience? The only times a knockout counts is if someone is in their prime?

So you criticize shavers win over Bugner because Bugner was older and young was inexperienced, but you are going to praise Cooney for stopping very old versions of Lyle, young, and Norton? Do you not see the hypocrisy here or do I need to spell everything out for you?

Question: what was Cooney's best KO?