Earnie Shaver's V These recent heavyweight s ?

The Williams fight is the only time I've seen Shavers stop an opponent late on accumulation shots, but then Williams wasn't really coming back with much for most of that fight, which allowed Shavers to more or less tee off on him. Peter's obviously going to be trying to club him into a heap, and manhandling him in the clinches, so Shavers's ability to land hard, hurtful shots without putting himself in the firing line are going to be reduced.

That's the only one I can think of anyway. What other fights support your case here?

Ali was also done, so I'm not sure what relevance that has.

You could say that. And I could equally say that Shavers's stopping Young was due to Young's inexperience, or that Shavers's ability to hurt and last the distance with Ali was due to Ali being completely shot, or that Shavers stopping Bugner was due to Bugner not having fought a meaningful fight in five years, and not being particularly good in the first place.

I think past a certain point micro-analysis of fighters and opponent rating becomes something of a pointless exercise. This isn't a particularly difficult fight to figure out, involving two sublime stylists with contrasting styles. It's a brawl between two big punchers that are going to come at each other and look to blast each other's brains out. The pertinent points to consider are how hard each fighter could hit and how hard they could be hit. On those two cornerstones is the fight going to be won or lost for either man.

He's not as explosive or effective a puncher, but the difference in power is not so huge as to matter very much here.

I'm still curious what you're basing Shavers's ability to stop Peter late on.

Yep. Same guy. He'd notched up KO wins over Lyakhovich and the teak tough Brewster around that same time frame, so he could clearly punch. He just couldn't box at all, hence his inability to turn the trick against Chisora, who never gave him a moment to breathe.

He caught Peter once Peter was on the slide and having suffered several demoralising KO losses to the Klit brothers. Peter was visibly out of shape in that fight, weighing in at around 260lbs. There were definite questions raised over his fitness and mental state. That's what I mean by Helenius catching him at the right time.

Toney lived and breathed on the inside. It was his entire modus operandi at HW. Is Shavers going to be shoulder rolling and pull countering every clubbing right hand Peter throws at him? Of course not. He'll have his head buried in Peter's chest trying to drive him back against the ropes with bodyshots. Against a guy with Peter's raw strength I think that's hardly a recipe for success.

As for the uppercuts, sure, these could have some success, but he'd be getting hit with clubbing punches round the back of the head as he's looking to land them, and generally being mauled and thrown around. Peter wasn't educated on the inside but he was ridiculously strong, and he'd have a sizeable weight advantage to use against Shavers.

Your entire argument rests of Shavers taking Peter into the later rounds. But I don't see anything on video from Shavers that makes that a strong possibility, let alone his being able to cause enough cumulative damage on Peter in that time without taking fight ending damage in turn. I don't see it as an argument based on much actual evidence, though I'm welcome to be corrected of course.

 

Shaver did have major problems with stamina....was never able to deliver the big punch when he needed it...and he never had a KO past round 7...

 

He stopped Tiger Williams after seven. That's about the only one I can think of, however.

 

No. Your point was that they were both "burst fighters", which is not an accurate comparison. Even a Shavers, facing far superior opposition than Peter, threw more punches than he ever did.

I've addressed your point of interpretation about fighters, who came forward against Shavers, in a separate paragraph. But, to bring up the Cobb bout shows me just how little perspective you have on this topic and why you do not understand the context of the fights you cite as evidence.

Moreover, Shavers KO'd Williams in the 10th Round. Williams was getting the better of it in round 10. Shavers rallied and ended up being the only man to ever KO Williams.

No - again - you are missing the point entirely. I didn’t mention KO ratios, did I?

You said this: “Against come forward fighters he was always forced to expend a lot more energy, which tended to result in him either bombing the guy out, or gassing or getting hurt with something and getting stopped.”

When you state there was a "tendency" you need evidence to support your idea of there being a tendency. The stats simply do not support your statement.

Peter was barely on the fringes; the very outskirts, at best, of being what I would call a world class Heavyweight and, even then, I have my doubts. He was a great competitor, who gave Wlad a reasonable go once but, other than that, the rest of his career is fairly mediocre.

World class Heavyweights do not run it close with an aging McCline (and quite possibly get awarded a gift decision against the same); get gift decisions against an old, fat middleweight or lose to Eddie Chambers and Robert Helenius.

Talk about trying to squeeze blood out of a stone…

You need to either read more carefully or stop taking my points out of context. I said: "Any other Heavyweight, who had had Wlad in that type of trouble, closed the show a winner."

Do the names Sanders and Brewster ring any bells?

If you say so…

The punch that Peter threw had a tired Wlad over-lean backwards and lose his balance into the ropes. It wasn't the power of the punch that created the KD and Wlad didn't go down "hard". He took a knee and looked fine during the count.

The penchant for overstatement never ends...

I don't think there is a template but, in any event, this bout is another example of a fight demonstrating something quite different from the "tendency" you think you've identified. There is no tendency.

Given what I have already mentioned about the Peter jab, which is a reasonably accurate description - I think - your comment above is nonsense.

 

I like the fact that you've spent the last few posts applying micro analyses, at almost every turn, with me just explaining where your interpretations are inaccurate. And, quite rightly.

You've even gone to the levels of details such as Wlad taking a knee in the 10th round of his first bout with Peter, as an example of Peter's late power. Wlad was not in anyway stunned and that example is not an example of Peter carrying his power into the latter rounds.


Here's the bigger picture:

Peter stopped only one [vaguely] world class opponent in his entire career. Maskaev was 39 and had been stopped in every fight he'd lost.

Peter had a low punch output and the steam went out of his punches in the later rounds. He also had a woefully poor strike rate and has some of the worst heavyweight stats I have seen.

Peter has only one stoppage win, in a bout that went beyond the 6th round. (Chris Isaac 6-4-0)

Peter could be hurt and was stopped 4 times himself.

Peter's best fight is often cited as James Toney II. You think a 38 year-old, fat, PED using middleweight was a ‘live’ heavyweight opponent. Even Ali, at age 35, was in a different heavyweight league to Toney. This really says it all.

You say it's unlikely that Shavers can get into the second half of a bout against Peter, when Shavers' record illustrates that it is a more likely scenario than not. Or do you have to watch 96 of Shavers' fights to understand the odds and, in turn, the likelihood?