Earnie Shavers vs Evander Holyfield

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by superman1986, Jul 20, 2017.


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  1. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    With a puncher of Shavers magnitude there is no "sure thing". The best Holy had the ability to win vs the best Shavers however. Late fight TKO.
     
    Perry, Jul 22, 2017
    Perry, Jul 22, 2017
    #31
  2. superman1986

    superman1986 Active Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah but that would be unprecedented. Pretend that you were making odds on the prime version of Holyfield vs what you feel is the best version of Shavers. Now, if we go on what we know, Holyfield being stopped by one shot can't be factored in because it never happened despite the big punchers he fought. And Holyfield wasn't some defensive genius, he took his share of punches, though he did have fair enough defense.

    Sure, anything could happen, but not anything is probable. And a puncher who could 1 time Holyfield hasn't or doesn't exist. Maybe there may one day come along a heavyweight puncher that we can say would likely have one shotted Holyfield, but such a puncher has never existed up to this point. And I'm not convinced that Shavers hit THAT much harder than Tyson, Foreman, Bowe, Mercer or Lewis. Sure, I'll grant you that Shavers did hit harder, but no one he knocked out are fighters that the above couldn't have stopped if they landed flush.
     
    superman1986, Jul 22, 2017
    superman1986, Jul 22, 2017
    #32
  3. superman1986

    superman1986 Active Member banned Full Member

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    I'd say that cruiserweight champion Holyfield or 1999 Holyfield that warred with Lennox Lewis should be a favorite over the best Shavers. The versions of Holyfield that prime Shavers would have the best chance of defeating would be the more inexperienced Holyfield of Qawi 1 or prior or Holyfield aged 40+.
     
    superman1986, Jul 22, 2017
    superman1986, Jul 22, 2017
    #33
  4. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And that's how the bookmakers make their living....
     
    Wass1985, Jul 22, 2017
    Wass1985, Jul 22, 2017
    #34
  5. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    If Shavers punched harder than Cooper or Mercer it wasn't by an appreciable degree or enough to get him the win here. Remember that Shavers failed to stop far worse fighters than Holy throughout his career. It's just unrealistic to expect him to suddenly get the job done against a proven ATG in Holyfield when he failed so many times before.

    As a betting man I wouldn't put a cent on Shavers, not even on the possibility of an upset. He gets a KD en route to a stoppage loss. That's about as much as I'll grant him.
     
    It's Ovah, Jul 22, 2017
    It's Ovah, Jul 22, 2017
    #35
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  6. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali among other top hwts stated Shavers hit him the hardest. Yes he hit harder than nobodies such as Cooper or Mercer.
     
    Perry, Jul 22, 2017
    Perry, Jul 22, 2017
    #36
  7. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    He should do. Shavers beat his ass and deserved the win.

    Didn't stop him though. He wouldn't stop Holy either.
     
    It's Ovah, Jul 22, 2017
    It's Ovah, Jul 22, 2017
    #37
  8. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Then Provide your long list of noted writers, judges and historians that gave the bout to Shavers. All three judges gave the bout to Ali as did AP and API. Unlike you I lived through that era and know the decision was not controversial. For some reason you want it to be something it was not.
     
    Perry, Jul 22, 2017
    Perry, Jul 22, 2017
    #38
  9. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    My eyes and my understanding of how to score fights give the bout to Shavers. I couldn't care less how the official judges or pro-Ali media scored the bout.

    Regardless, he didn't knock Ali out and he wouldn't knock Holyfield out. In the latter case that means he loses, badly.
     
    It's Ovah, Jul 22, 2017
    It's Ovah, Jul 22, 2017
    #39
  10. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Then you admit only you scored the bout for Shavers. Minority rule and a Ali hater?
     
    Perry, Jul 22, 2017
    Perry, Jul 22, 2017
    #40
  11. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    I don't hate Ali, but I don't love him either. Certainly not enough to blinker me to the fact that he was given more than his fair share of biased refereeing and judging throughout his career. The Shavers fight was one of those occasions.

    Are you a Shavers hater because you don't acknowledge the thunderous shots he landed with frequency from the second round onwards? Seems like it to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
    It's Ovah, Jul 23, 2017
    It's Ovah, Jul 23, 2017
    #41
  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not at all. I rooted for Shavers when he fought Ali. Shavers unfortunately did not do enough to win and I like everyone else realized this as the fight progressed. This is why the decision was NOT controversial. In fact Shavers himself says the same thing today.....I did not do enough to win.
     
    Perry, Jul 23, 2017
    Perry, Jul 23, 2017
    #42
  13. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Holyfield survived an old George Foremen, a 25 year old George would have dynamited Evander.
     
    Reinhardt, Jul 23, 2017
    Reinhardt, Jul 23, 2017
    #43
  14. superman1986

    superman1986 Active Member banned Full Member

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    I wouldn't call Mercer or Cooper "nobodies", especially in comparison to Shavers. They were all top rated contenders with similar careers and Mercer or Cooper would have a good chance at beating Shavers H2H, in fact, I would favor Mercer to stop Shavers similar to how Lyle did it.
     
    superman1986, Jul 23, 2017
    superman1986, Jul 23, 2017
    #44
  15. superman1986

    superman1986 Active Member banned Full Member

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    I'm not convinced of that. Even though I think that the 93- 96 version of Holyfield would be best suited for a younger George Foreman, due to having more size, strength and perhaps punching power, I think that the peak Holyfield that beat old Foreman could have pulled it off against a younger George Foreman. Remember, a younger George Foreman couldn't go 12 rounds like his older self could. He'd have a limited amount of time to stop Holyfield, because he sure ain't winning a decision over him.

    And I don't think Holyfield could be stopped early by anyone. You'd have to be at least a respectable heavyweight puncher landing flush combinations for many rounds. If a younger George Foreman could land repeatedly and last the distance without getting tired, I'd back him over Holyfield too.
     
    superman1986, Jul 23, 2017
    superman1986, Jul 23, 2017
    #45
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