Eddie Futch Vs Angelo Dundee

Eddie Futch was more of a nurturing type of trainer, teaching the fundamentals, he did work well with the professional growth of Joe Frazier, along with Yank Durham, when Joe began his pro career in 1965. Futch along with Durham were the duo who did not allow Frazier to accept a potential fight with champion Muhammad Ali in 1967, saying that Joe was too green. Eddie was the one that dis not allow Joe out for round 14, in the much anticipated, Thrilla In Manila. Angelo Dundee was more of a technical type of trainer, telling his fighters of the opponents strengths and weaknesses, and how to counter these. He was a cheerleader in the corner, motivating his fighters. He did with Sugar Ray Leonard against Thomas The Hitman Hearns, on Sept 16 1981, he told Leonard, Kid, You Are Blowing It. Ray responded with furious combos to end the bout in round 14. Futch was more like a father to his fighters, Angelo with his profanity is a pushy type of trainer, but a good teacher. Both had plenty of experience.

 

Dundee had no input into Basilio's training or strategy,he came in as a cuts ,man

 

I think you need to look closer at angelo's career. What about Pastrano, Rodriguez, Jimmy Ellis and many more.
It was Ray Leonard who wanted Dundee. What does that tell you about how he was seen within the sport ?

 

Angelo was certainly with Nunn when he stopped Don Curry.

 

Boxers and Trainers are like locks and keys. The fit has to be right if you are going to unlock all that a Fighter has to offer. Archie Moore tried to train Ali and basically gave up.
Futch and Dundee had slightly differing approaches. Angelo did all the technical work in the gym. If you read his book, " I Only Talk Winning ", he describes how intense the gym sessions were with guys like Rodriguez and Pastrano while with Ali it was a constant psychological game. Angelo believed that, by fight time, the technical stuff was done and embedded and his job was to maintain his Fighters' focus. Famously, when Willie Pastrano was allowing Terry Downes to take over their fight in 1964, Angelo gave him a roasting in the corner at the end of the 11th and whacked him hard on the backside like a Father spanking a child, as he went out for the 12th. Pastrano came right back to life and stopped Downes in that round.
Futch was also technical in the gym but in the corner he saw his job as reminding his Fighter what they had worked on and take the emotion of fighting out of it. Unfortunately Futch didn't write a book so never shared his secrets.
One thing is for sure, when you look at the Fighters they worked with, both men were genuinely great Trainers.

 

I really like this post, very informative.

 

Willie and Dupas were trained by a trainer out of NEW ORLEANS.
Nunn was with Goosen and LATTER was trained by Angelo.
Napoles?? Sure Angelo worked his corner but Napoles started in CUBA. And latter MEXICO.

 

ok. I think he left Goosen after the Barkley fight. So he fought a couple of times under Dundee before losing to Toney. I’ll never forget watching Nunn-Toney live on TVKO, Joe Goosen was calling to fight with Len Berman, he was utterly stunned seeing Michael Nunn on his back, it’s a great call, he’s screaming!!!

 

Nunn was a very good Boxer but I don't think even Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown could have helped him against that version of Toney. There are reasons that Benn and Eubank wanted nothing to do with him and you see most of them in that fight.

 

About even.

 

Eddie Futch was the better trainer for many reasons. I'll only post two:

* Eddie Futch took a musclebound Marine ... who had beaten no one of note and who was brought in as a Saturday afternoon ABC Wild World of Sports knockover opponent for Angelo Dundee's top fighter Muhammad Ali (who hadn't been on live national television in the U.S. since the Karl Mildenberger fight, so they promised to give him someone easy because the budget was tight) ... and taught Ken Norotn the strategy of matching Ali jab for jab and then coming in behind it, and it totally threw Ali off his game and resulted in a monumental upset.

* Eddie Futch also stopped the Thrilla in Manila before the 15th and final round when it was clear to him Frazier couldn't defend himself anymore ... while Angelo Dundee allowed the Ali-Holmes fight to go on and on and on ... even after the ninth round, which Sylvester Stallone at ringside described as like watching "an autopsy on a live person" ... because Dundee wouldn't stop the fight until he was given the okay by Ali's manager Herbert Muhammad to stop it.

Even when Ali was getting beaten nearly to death, and hadn't won a round, Dundee wouldn't do what he was supposed to do until someone else gave him a nod.

As someone else said, Futch was a trainer and Dundee was more of a motivational speaker and cutman. That's why Ali's corners between rounds were often chaotic. Because Dundee didn't take charge very often.

That's why I cringe every time there's a replay of Dundee stopping the Holmes fight, where he goes, "I'm the chief second, and I stop the fight!" It was so phoney, especially compared with what Futch did in Manila.

Dundee stopped it when Herbert Muhammad told him to stop it. Not before. Futch stopped it even when NOBODY wanted the fight stopped, but he did it anyway because he could see the damage himself.

 

Didn't see this. Totally agree.

 

This. Chemistry between a trainer and fighter is absolutely essential. It’s impossible to say one is better than the other, since both were extremely experienced and resourceful, so either could provide a fighter with the proper guidance to achieve success.

As much as I like Durham, who did great things for Frazier without Futch’s Clever matchmaking and guidance Frazier would’ve never developed as well as he did and likely never became a champion. My trainer, who was one of Quarry’s main sparring partners in the 60’s said the big difference between Frazier and Quarry wasn’t talent, but having the right person directing their career.

This is also the case with Ali, who despite his talent definitely benefited by having Dundee in his corner. Dundee and his brother Chris along with the Louisville Sponsering Group in my opinion did an excellent job in appropriately matching Ali with the right opponents early in his career.

 

As others have said, Futch was a teacher & educater while Dundee was a glorified cheerleader. If I was a fighter I'd rather have Futch in my corner.

 

FUTCH.