Eddie Futch's Top 4 Middleweights.

That was before I'd watched it lol

 

Of course, the man only lost 4 fights of 110, and 2 of them were on a Foul...

ALL of the Quotes, you've just read about him were from BOXING People, plus there were many more throughout Britain, Europe and Canada who raved about him too.

Last and people rarely cite this, Nat Fleischer first Spoke & Reported on Cerdan in 1938/39 after seeing him in Europe. So that validates the Other Similar Praises and Ratings your reading here.

the unwillingness to credit this man among some people on this site amazes me, but of course they are usually the same people that Ignore the Actual Contemporary Reports and boxing people when it suits them.

Cerdan would compete just fine with ANY Welter & Middleweights in Boxing History, including Hagler.

there aren't 10 tiers, there's only 2 or 3 at the TOP and Cerdan is TOP Tier.

 

Well, I guess it comes down to h2h v resume and achievement. It wasn't made clear how they were rating Cerdan but I think it seemed that a lot were thinking about h2h when rating certain fighters, which is fine - each to their own in terms of rating systems.

I think Cerdan stood out to me as an anomaly based on the other fighters who were in Futch's top 4 having all had really substantial title reigns. Sure, Robinson's was split across 5 separate reigns but covered virtually the whole of the 50s, Monzon was the dominant middleweight of the 70s (7 years) and Hagler was the dominant middleweight of the 80s (7 years). Cerdan stood out in that company because his title reign lasted 0 successful defenses and then he died. It feels a little bit like if Carlos Monzon had won the title in emphatic fashion against Nino Benvenuti (as he did) and then that was it. He'd have an impressive-looking record and an impressive title win but we wouldn't be sure quite how good he was. That might be extending the comparison a bit far, but do you see my point?

 

I do, and its a very salient point, well laid out. keep well.

 

Yeah Futch was also convinced that his fighter Spinks would beat Tyson

 

I can't imagine Hagler stopping him, to be honest.
Cerdan was stopped just that once, retired with a torn shoulder, past his prime. He was incredibly durable.

 

Yeah, it's a competitive points fight and while I would lean towards Hagler, i think Cerdan is a tough proposition for most middleweights, Hagler included.

Like I said elsewhere, I think he's been rated more based on head to head capability rather than his achievements at a championship level.

 

There are times when you see a great fighter at his best, doing his thing. It stays with you regardless of how his career played out post prime. Years later on paper they may look good but unless you saw them you dont quite get it.
I don't know. enough about Cerdan but he has always been held in the highest of esteems from those folks who saw him.

 

Marcel Cerdan was one of the greatest. I think it is only on this forum that I've seen it questioned.

 

Maybe Eddie was basing Ray's middleweight best on his form up until 1952 when he had his first retirement after the rematch with Randy Turpin.

 

Yeah, his record really only got spotty after he had the retirement and came back. He was naturally never as good as he had been in the early 50s. And it got really spotty in the late 50s/early 60s after his NBA title reign finally ended.

But 1950-1952, he was still at or near his brilliant best.

 

On the subject of Turpin, astonished that Mickey Duff a fighter, promoter, agent, matchmaker, a man steeped in boxing history has put Randy as his No 2 MW behind Robinson WHAT !!!! . That's extreme bias by any standards surely .
Met him once at one of his promotions and at several LEBA functions, easy man not like !! , keep well.

 

Your right he was, saw him once descried as a " well armoured tank " bout right I would say. keep well.

 

I agree. At the Sametime I think Randy Turpin during his rise and up through the night he lost to Robinson in New York would have been a problem for almost anyone. He was never the same after that. Various reasons.
I don't think people appreciate what Ray Robinson was dealing with in those two bouts..