Eddie Machen. How's He Go Against Peak Cooney?

Agreed. I was more than a little hesitant to bring up the 'size factor', though.

But here it does make a difference. As you allude, Cooney was genuinely huge; not a modern fattyweight, and made Holmes - a good 6' 3", albeit a trim 15st.+ himself, look undersized in there. However, Holmes had the movement, the reach, control of distance, combined with that jab and speed and timing to keep Cooney thinking and disrupt his offensive.

While I have looked to the Holmes bout as example of an approach required to overcome those physical disadvantages, your initial mention of the Cooney/Young match is a very pertinent highlight. Young realized he could not control the outside and then, it seemed to me at least, elected to close the distance on Cooney, only to get rather badly beaten up in the process. And, in addition to a more persistent use of the jab, Cooney's offensive was two-handed with a wider variety of punches.

I think it does point towards Machen's options being limited and those he does have coming with a high risk attached to them.

 

Agree. While Cooney wasn’t a “ great “ fighter he’s become underrated in a lot of fantasy fights

 

I respect Machen a lot, but as been said, not big enough. Cooney's left was pretty devastating.
It also depends which Cooney shows up though.

 

Absolutely. I think anytime between 1979-1982 he’d be fine

 

I don't know if it will influence your reasoning, but if you would take the time to research the prior threads about the Liston-Machen fight you would learn that Machen hurt his right hand in training a week or so before the fight. That is why he does very little significant punching with his right during the fight. To me, this puts another slant on the fight. Machen survived 12 rounds against the Big Bad Bear fighting him with one hand.

 

Agreed but the flip side of that coin is that the injured arm forever him to fight cautiously which may have saved him

 

I am indeed aware of the background to the fight, and believed it was Machens shoulder which was hurt not his hand, however if you think that (a) he would have engaged with Liston with a fully fit right shoulder, and (b) survived the 12 rounds if he had engaged then our opinions differ, and that is fine by me.
Whatever opinion we hold, i sure as hell can only applaud Machen for surviving 12 rounds against Liston, at that stage of Listons career.

 

I am confused by the missing verb in your posting. Are you saying that the injured arm prior to the Liston fight caused Machen to fight cautiously forever after? That is unlikely. There are several factors that may have increased Eddie's caution after his peak years, including the devastating kayo loss to Ingo and the subsequent mental problems which cause him to be committed to a mental institution in 1962, I think it was. If you are saying the injured arm caused Machen to fight cautiously against Liston and that may have saved him from fighting agressively against Sonny and getting kayoed, that may be. But, on the other hand, it may have saved Liston too. Machen just loved to fight defensively and literally sit on the ropes before suddenly unloading with both barrels when his opponent moved in. If Eddie had the use of both hands, I'm sure he would have tried to nail Sonny coming in. Because of the hand (it may have been the arm, I can't remember now), he was never able to try that tactic.

The issue in this thread is not about the Liston fight anyway. It is aboutwhat chance Machen might have had against Cooney. I think KW was suggesting that Machen would have fought Cooney with the same degree of caution he showed against Liston. My original post was meant to suggest that Machen's extreme caution in the Liston fight probably would not have carried over to a fight against Cooney if Eddie had the full use of both hands. I can't render an opinion about who would win Machen-Cooney because I have never seen Cooney fight. I have seen virtually all of the Machen fights which are available on film and kinescope.

 

You didn't mention your knowledge of the injured arm in you previous postings and I was curious to know if that would change your opinion about his chances against Cooney. Apparently, since you already knew about the shoulder, that it doesn't and that you think Machen would have run and fought just as defensively against Cooney as he did against Liston.

 

Autocorrect error. I meant the injured arm probably caused him to fight cautiously which may have saved him from taking chances which could have led to being KTFO

 

Very possible! I think at the very least Machen showed he was not afraid of Liston. I also think we would eventually have seen some sparks fly if Eddie was 100 percent.

 

I do think Machen would be just as defensive, i would suggest that Machen would if lucky fight as he did against Terrell, to see that final bell.

 

I'm not sure what you mean here. I think Eddie was completely past being a realistic contender when he fought Terrell. That's why Ernie was so eager to guarantee Eddie's purse and promise his hometown promoter Irving Schoenwald that he would waive his entire purse if the fight didn't cover all expenses. The outcome of the fight was a foregone conclusion.

 

Maybe. I suppose he’s deserving of the benefit of the doubt.