who takes the prize of being the better of two legacy wise? Machen: came into his own by beating Nino Valdez twice in 56. beat older versions of puncher Baker and a well past it Joey Maxim. pitched a shut out over Tommy Jackson and Willi Besamanof, blew away Irish Pat McMurty and beat a few of Liston's top ten ranked opponents. Went the distance with Liston. The first to beat Doug Jones (though Folley would beat him as well the first time) Flipside, lost to Patterson. Was destroyed by Johansson, great Lt. Heavy Harold Johnson, and in fact, was defeated by Bell himself in the rematch. Zora was beat by lesser fighters (Cooper, Lavoronte, Jones) was knocked out by Liston in three, but also to his credit, went on and did more later in his career beating lt heavy Foster, Bonavana, Clark. Folley also beat Valdez in 56. Plus he does have the win over Machen. Machen probably had a shorter peak because he was more of a pure boxer than Folley, but I would say his prime years has the better quality wins, but then again, Zora did beat him. It's a tough call. But they were certainly comtemporaries and judging one above the other is less subjective. I think I would have to give it to Machen, because Machen never lost to anyone who was any less than very good in his prime years. 1956-perhaps Patterson 8 years later. but then again, Zora beat him.
Both good fighters. I would give it to Eddie Machen by a shade. He took Liston 12 rds. when everyone else was being blown away by the "Big Ugly Bear". He also handed Jerry Quarry his first loss in 1966 when Jerry was still unbeaten.Zora Folley was a very fine boxer as well. What a shame neither were afforded title opportunities when they both were at their peak. They were both past it when they finally got their shot at a championship. Zora gave a prime Ali a good fight for the first three rounds. I remember Ali saying that Folley was his best opponent up to that point in time. Do you think that either of them could be champions today with the calibre of fighters in 2007? Perhaps.
Anyone seen a prime zora on film?(not the washed up folley who fought ali)........folley looks like an awesome boxer with one of the best jabs in the division. i have some of his late 1950s fighs including his match with cooper. He looks much leaner sharp faster in these fights than old pudgy folley who fought ali. Folley and Machen both were Class A boxers throughout history some of the finest boxing skills we have ever seen in heavyweight contenders. the fact liston annihalated these prime versions of these two simply add to listons greatness. I think machen has the slight edge overall but both are pretty much even. machen was less vunerable to punchers but folley matches up better vs boxers cause of his long jab.
Well, I don't think one would really be accurate in describing Machen as having been "destroyed" by Johnson. He just lost a pretty close decision. And by "Bell," do you mean "Folley"?? Well, while Folley did have the slight edge in the head-to-head matches between the two (a draw and a win), and he stuck near the top longer, I think Machen clearly set a higher standard of performance- only elite contenders beat or drew with him in the first 10 years of his career (which also encompass his prime), which is a considerable notch above Folley, who had a consistent smattering of losses to lower-level opposition throughout his career. Machen handily dealt with Summerlin and London, two of the lower-tier opponents who beat Folley. I think Machen's consistent elite-level performance standard puts him a little ahead of Folley on my scale.
do u have foley's fight with liston, i would love to see it. By the way, which fighters ducked liston?
Wasn't it Henry Cooper and /or his manager said "If we see Liston coming down the sidewalk, we cross the street to the other side".
I'd say Machen is a step ahead. He didn't have a glass chin like Foley and didn't lose to the class of fighters that Foley lost to during his prime.
Yeah, Bell is the nickname. I did not mean to imply that Machen was destroyed by Harold Johnson, just Johansson. I can see how you would see that, but I just meant Ingo. That is my thought as well. Even though it was Folley who beat Machen.