In Mythical Matchups, we always assume each guy at their best. And no, I dont give Torres much of a chance if Eddie is at his best.
Film of “prime” Eddie Mustafa Muhammad is almost as elusive as that of Harry Greb. His prime was a blink-and-you-missed-it kind of thing. This is classic “prime” EMM: https://www.nytimes.com/1983/07/16/sports/title-bout-is-called-off-challenger-overweight.html
Simply untrue. If you want to see excellent performances from Mustafa watch him against any of these - Saad Muhammad Galindez (sure he didn't put his foot on the gas when he needed to but the talent is clear) Jesse Burnett Marvin Johnson Jerry Martin Lottie Mwale He is superb in all these fights. The bit of footage available against Eugene Hart in his 11th fight shows frightening offensive skills.
I look at a fighter’s prime as a stretch of time, not selected performances over time. In the middle of all this, EMM showed up listless and got his brains beaten in by James Scott (helluva fighter, but Eddie was in total survivor mode ... maybe James was the cause of that) and had several sleep-walking performances (including some of his wins). He was too inconsistent over this stretch to call it his prime. And then you have him showing up overweight for a Spinks rematch and not even trying to cut the 2 pounds to make weight because he was too lazy. Eddie had skills. He didn’t have dedication.
So ironic that Eddie's prime is being questioned in this matchup. @JohnThomas1 just listed 6 different fights where Eddie is amazing. Outside of the Pastrano fight, name another performance where Torres set the world on fire. I'll wait...
Eddie's best wins at light heavyweight: Matthew Saad Muhammad Jesse Burnett Ray Elson Marvin Johnson Jerry Martin Lottie Mwale Jerry Celestine Tyrone Booze Ricky Parkey Torres' best wins at light heavyweight: Carl Olson Willie Pastrano Wayne Thornton Eddie Cotton Chic Calderwood Torres also beat a few decent heavies. Both men compiled good middleweight records, with Torres' probably being the better of the two.
Kind of comical pretending EMM set the world on fire. He didnt. He was incredibly inconsistent. He was like a proto James Toney in that he had plenty of skills but certain styles gave him problems and his lack of dedication was a huge achilles heal. You might think he was better at his absolute best than Torres (debateable) but as was eluded earlier he was so inconsistent that even at his absolute best he might phone it in and get outpointed because I cant remember a time that Torres showed out of shape and unprepared with the possible exception of the first Tiger fight. This is a pretty interesting matchup to me and pretty difficult to pick.
You keep talking "prime" in EMM H2H fight threads but it's commonly accepted that we take the best version of a fighter in such matches. Long primes have nothing to do with such threads. Mustafa performed at a high level long enough to make informed decisions on when he was at his best and what he could do. Truth be told Eddie was fighting at a very high level as early as the Hart fight. Over the next 6-7 years he lost to a much more experienced Briscoe by SD at 161 pounds, run Galindez extremely close on his home turf and choked against James Scott in Rahway Prison. By me that's not a bad stretch at all. Sure he **** himself in Rahway fighting Scott but i reckon i'd have a pretty hard time fighting in there. Mind you Scott was an extremely good fighter. Yes he did, as said he **** himself and put forward a poor display. It happens. Duran put in poor displays in the middle of things leading up to him walloping Davey Moore and giving Hagler a good fight too. History is littered with poor performances from extremely good fighters while they were still prime. That's boxing. He could be lazy in the odd win but the thing is they were wins. So anyone with a few losses thrown in with good wins doesn't have a prime? Mustafa lost 3 fights in a 6-7 year period and all were to extremely good opposition - Briscoe, Galindez and Scott. He was going great against spinks too before losing 26 pounds in 2 months or less caught up with him as well as having his eye shut from an almost certain foul. For sure Pat. He did not have "enough" dedication and did not get all that much out of the great talent he had. Despite this however he had numerous superb performances and it's as obvious as dog balls how good he was against Johnson and Martin in back to back performances. Jerry Martin had just put a whupping on James Scott whom he dropped twice. At his best, and we did see it, Mustafa could most certainly fight.
It's not so much wins and losses as the fact that even during his prime years EMM couldn't be relied upon to show up in shape and focused. Nobody has to specify an "in shape and focused" Marciano, Hagler or Holyfield because it was just a given that they would be. Surely that should be as much a factor in a fight as having a great jab or a weak chin. Having said all that I'd back the best EMM to beat the best Torres.
I don't think anyone is denying any of that but it's a H2H thread and we saw more than enough of Eddie at his best to know what he brought to the table. What fights in particular would you put forward as Eddie being particularly out of shape and focus?
