Eder Jofre: Bantamweight/P4P Ranking

It bears thinking about that Jofre was struggling to make the weight by the time of the first Harada fight, and the last type of fighter you want to be facing at that point is a multi-dimensional, super-skilled swarmer. If he'd managed to scrape by Harada - or not fought him at all - and finally moved up to bang it out with Saldivar (can you imagine what a fight that one would have been at that point rather than when Saldivar was ready for the scrapheap?), it might have done more in bringing him to wider awareness.

Also, I can't correlate the effects of vegetarianism to boxing in the long run (not being a dietician or nutritionist), but I've heard several people mention that being a vegetarian didn't help Jofre's cause in terms of bodily intake requirement.

Also Addie, you may have already seen, but the IBRO researcher Dan Cuoco (apparently one the foremost sources of info on Jofre) ranks him as the second greatest p4per ever. Too high to be really justifiable with most people, but it still gives me a buzz to see knowledgeable people ranking him in the top 15 or 20, even though lists mean jack **** to me.

It's like sweet_scientist says though: how you value his overall record is what determines your opinion of him in the widest sense. Because ability-wise, he's arguably up there with the greatest of the greatest. One of the great combiners of pure textbook punches.

 

Its probably in my top 5 for fights seen. I mentioned the delivery of his shots before :good

Although he wasn't as conspicuous as Harada in his adjustments during the fight, he himself, also made some very effective little tweaks to his game throughout the whole fight.

If you'r weight drained you do not want to fight any one on the calibre of Harada regardless of styles.

Definitly, if he had moved up and beaten one of the best Featherweights ever, in his prime and slightly past his own. It would have been one of the biggest wins ever.

How do you think it would have went?

I don't think it would do that much against you.

That is very interesting.

 

Jofre-Saldivar? I'm not sure of the outcome tbh but it would have an excellent match-ups styleswise. Word is that Jofre was somewhat reinvigorated after he moved up (I wish we had footage of his winning effort against Legra or something) and he notched up a few wins over some good contenders. The accuracy of his combination punching coupled with his power would have stood him in good stead. Obviously Vicente was shot when they fought, but Jofre seemed to take him quickly and ruthlessly after a slow start despite not encountering much in the way of resistance. That kind of thing as a must against the best Saldivar (the ability to hurt him, that is).

My main fear for him would be in the championship rounds if Saldivar had been able to motor into top gear as he always did. Plus he could hit just as accurately and brutally as Jofre could, something he proved consistently at the weight. I'd back him to more opportunistic too than either Harada or Medal were he able to sting Jofre as the former two did. Still, Jofre was as tough as old boots and very good at firing back under pressure. I think he might have to hit Saldivar hard and early in order to knock the wind out his sails, so to speak. You know, try and take away early the fuel that Saldivar was good at reserving for the final third.

I'd be sad to see either of em lose truth be told, both of em being amongst my favourites as they are.

 

By the way GP, have a quick look at that article by Cuoco if you've not seen it (though I thought you would have, sharp as you are). There are some good read-ups on Jofre's title defences too if I remember rightly.

http://www.ibroresearch.com/?p=200

 

Definitely agree in the fact that Jofre with his precise combo's has a good style to counteract Saldivar's pressuring style. Those combo's are going to keep Saldivar honest, and perhaps even off Jofre and that is exactly what you need to counter a pressure fighter like him.

It would be very interesting to see footage of Jofre at Featherweight to see two main things - how strong he was at the weight and how his power was carried up.

If his power was not the same it makes the task even more momentous. I'll address the strength issue later.

I don't think Saldivar was a massive one punch puncher, he was a more strong fighter who would look to wear you down then start to look at getting you out there with the combinations. I think the main worry for Jofre though is Saldivar's strength as Saldivar is one of the strongest Featherweights I have seen and that is not good for a fighter moving up especially as Saldivar applies that strength through his pressure. It means that Saldivar may be able to 'walk through' Jofre and completely manhandle him on the inside, which would be disastrous for Jofre.

I think your strategy would be right for Jofre as he would have to try and land those hard combo's early as Saldivar is still warming up and hope to do some damage, but if Saldivar feels he is the much stronger man, he may turn things up himself early to counteract this, as no one is really going to want Jofre hanging around with them for long.

And Saldivar was a pressure fighter but he was clever with it, he's not going to be just walking straight at Jofre, he is going to be presenting angles and looking to take away Jofre's strengths. So I do think saldivar could probably get to him late after a furious battle, with Saldivar's strength keeping him on top.

Because to be honest if I have a fighter moving up from Bantamweight the last fighter I would want him to face would be a guy like Saldivar, wouldn't it?

Same, but what a match up it could have been!

I think I have read it before, but I will check it out again. Dan Cuoco is a sharp guy so I respect his opinion greatly.

 

Nah, you wouldn't want any bantam moving up to face Saldivar in an ideal world would you?

I do think that Saldivar had great one punch power in his straight left even if it wasn't of Saddleresque magnitude. Every blow was designed to hurt with him. And as you alluded to, he was physically very strong with a low centre of gravity and presented a difficult target with his size, blocking and slipping ability and patient subtlety. It's his physical strength and stamina, particularly down the stretch (where he was brilliant and where Jofre's age might conspire against him) that may well have swung the fight in his favour. That's what I was trying to get at.

You might be right saying that Saldivar might up the gears earlier than expected if necessary. He did it throughout his title reign once he thought he had someone figured out.

That said, Jofre was tall for a bantam despite fighting out of that crouch and was an excellent uppercutter. Great precision and leverage and more accurate than the likes of Ramos or Legra. It could have been useful in splitting Saldivar's guard when he got too close, keeping him honest or even hurting him to the point where Jofre could quickly follow up on him. I've not seen the Ramos fight for quite some time, but I vaguely remember Saldivar having to cover up a fair bit at times in early to mid stages before he really got going. Jofre wasn't nearly as powerful as Ramos in direct comparison (who was a monster at the weight) but he was a bit cleverer and more accurate. And he was able to hang tough with Legra, who seemed to have that tall, wiry, underrated Rodriguez-like Cuban frame and himself hung tough with Saldivar while also breaking down Clemente Sanchez. Arguello deserves considerable credit for beating Legra like he did.

I suppose it's all circular really with a little bit more of the circle perhaps being on Saldivar's side depending on what you value. I'll shut up now......

 

very well put greg.he's my No.1 too

 

Unless you didn't like them, no.

He was definitely a strong puncher, but he did not really have that amazing snap or explosiveness which made him a dangerous banger at all times. He would normally wear you down then bludgeon you out of your consciousness with that ram rod left.

That strength and stamina will also take a toll on Jofre's lack of comparative size from moving up to Bantam, he will be the one having to give ground at times and be forced back and worn out. But I agree the age is another factor, although Jofre seemed to manage a high pace with Harada in both fights and that was whilst weight drained.

Exactly, if Jofre ups it early, Saldivar will have to figure him out and match him IMO.

I also think he hits harder than either, and can definitely land on Saldivar, but Saldivar has a good set of chops.

Definitely, early I think Jofre has sucess landing as Saldivar comes in, with precise hard combinations and maybe backing him up. It is as Saldivar goes through the gears and imposes himself on Jofre that the going gets ugly for poor Eder.

I think he figures out Ramos then he hurts him about the fourth round, then completely dominates him from then on, going by the highlights. He keeps the pressure high and lands sharp hooks and uppercuts to the head and body.

Not sure, I think in terms of punching power they are quite even, perhaps with the edge to Jofre.

Ramos is much stronger physically and is a beast. Also Ramos was a pretty tricky fighter himself, like against Moore he sets up his punches well with feints and uses combinations well. He aint just a big physical freak, he had a boxing brain.

I do not know enough about Legra to be honest. Yeh I was thinking about the Arguello win a few days back and it is a superb one.

Yeh, I like Saldivar's strength and pressure to triumph.

Thanks.

I'm actually starting to think Zarate's resume might be sold short and he has a shot at being numero uno.

 

i remember zarate beating zamora.i thought zamora would win.d'oh

 

not top 35

 

Care to expand on this?

 

GOAT Bantamweight.

Top 20 P4P.

 

Tin_Ribs that article was good.

 

PFP id rate him top 40 at bantam I have him #3 you could even make a case for #1 not much seperating them though.

 

Interesting isn't it?

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, but I was going to start a thread concerning some of Pone Kingpetch's close wins at home in Thailand after watching him him against Perez, Harada, Ebihara and Seki. It was the Seki fight that peaked my interest mostly, because he (Seki) seemed to me to be getting the better of things despite it being close - not an easy thing with Kingpetch when you consider that Harada and Ebihara had to flatten him to be sure of winning.
Seki was a quality little operator to my eye, very well-schooled and crafty, and I was thinking that he might have been able to work his way up to a crack at Jofre until I realised that he got starched in 5 by Medel, which probably put him out of the picture slightly at bantam. Surely this has to be a really underrated win when you consider that neither Ramos or Saldivar did it as quickly. It's basically a long-winded way of saying that got me thinking of Seki vs Jofre and how good Jofre's two wins over the prime, fired up Medel were. It was a really deep era even if most of the names weren't all that recognisable.