Eder Jofre: Why does he rate so highly with a lot of you?

Ring and BI consistently referred to Jofre as 'boxing best pfp fighter' throughout the sixties- and that was up against some very fine competition. So, at his best he was generally ranked higher than the Ali's, Griffith's, Tiger's and Ortiz's of the world. That's high cotton. BI also did a 'best in our lifetime pfp' (1959-1976) and Eder won that too. Of course, he was always planning to move up because of his battles with the scales, but had one fight too many (ala Don Curry).

 

Fighters (especially smaller ones) tended to peter out quite early in those days. More hectic fight schedules, probably didn't take the right precautions pre and post fighting like fighters do more often today, and they often started earlier in their careers as well.

Add to that, Jofre was thinking of retiring a couple of years before he even faced Harada, but felt obliged to go on as he was a national hero. The lack of motivation coincided with, or probably blended into the weight issues he was having. Continuously torturing himself to make weight could have meant that he was not preparing himself as he used to early in his career and so the end was inevitable.

I don't want to paint a picture as if Jofre was shot by the time he faced Harada, that's not true, he was still very good, but he wasn't the very best Jofre. That he had to run for an hour on the day of the weigh in to lose 2 pounds gives you an idea of the condition he was in at the time.

From what I've read, Jofre's level of competition was pretty good. Not a lot of guys with big reputations but he wasn't facing downright hacks in there. if belts were as splintered as they are today and if there was an 122 pound division in those days, many of the guys he faced would have been regarded as champions.

Even discounting that though, someone like Jose Medel for example, despite having a shitty looking record, was a pretty good fighter, and I can vouch for that from having seen him fight Jofre (and Harada both times too) in a great back and forth affair. I'd take that Medel to beat any of the bantams of today actually.

Even a guy with as bad a record with Herman Marques, believe it or not was able to outbox Jofre for large portions of the fight, and Jofre was behind on the cards when he finally stopped him. So you can't assume just becuase these guys don't have reps and don't sport flashy records that they're crap.

That said, had Jofre not returned as a featherweight, I'd probably only rank him a little bit higher than Carlos Zarate (who I rank really highly anyway). Both have similar records, though Zarate was beaten more convincingly by Gomez than Jofre ever was, and though I felt that he beat Pintor, I'd have taken the Jofre of the Harada losses to beat that Pintor too, and more convincingly. I'd have taken a peak Jofre over a peak Zarate too, but it would have been close.

The featherweight resurgence is amazing and does add quite a bit to him legacy wise, but the meat and potatoes of his career was had at bantamweight and is worthy of much merit in and of itself.

 

:good

 

He looked very tough in these fights, but let's not overrate him so much. He didn't look very skilled or very clever, it's just that he was able to withstand the beating both gave him while having him on the ropes and save enough energy to make a come back in later rounds, which was impressive. Consistency means a lot when evaluating a fighter, and Medel wasn't too good in this department. He somewhat resembles Jorge Vaca in this (not in chin/toughness department, of course).

 

worth mentioning that 30 was considered ancient for a Flyweight or Bantam back then.jofre's comeback was quite remarkable.

Not so much nowadays but lighter weight guys still usually reach primes quicker and slow down earlier.

 

As I said he was a pretty good fighter. I don't think saying that is to overrate him. Inconsistent as he was, on his best night I'd take him to beat any bantam at the moment.

He was inconsistent like a Jorge Vaca, that said, I think he had some better wins than Vaca, whose best win came in a fight he probably would have lost if he wasn't somewhat fortunate (Honeyghan losing a point because of a headbut which gave Vaca the split decision edge when the fight was halted). KO'ing Fighting Harada is something infinitely more meritorius than that win.

 

I dont know why he gets ranked above carlos ortiz. IDK if ortiz has losses to buzzo and carlos teo cruz. He has wins over locce, loi, elorde, brown, ramos and laguna. His resume crushes jofre's resume. Ortiz fought 8 hall of famers, jofre fought 2.

 

There's more good and bad in Ortiz's resume. On the one hand he has wins ove Locche, Loi, Elorde, Brown, Laguna and Ramos. On the other he has losses to Busso, Lane, Loi, Laguna and Cruz.

Jofre didn't have that level of comp, but he also doesn't lose to guys like Busso, Lane and Cruz. He was more consistent than Ortiz in that respect.

Best vs. Best you could make an argument that Ortiz was better, but then again, many who saw both live were considering Jofre better at the time. Whether that's totally justified I don't know, but it goes towards saying something about how impressive Jofre looked at his best, even though it was against lesser comp.

 

To be fair, ortiz fought in an era when having a 'loss' wasnt devastating. I think if you beat more hall of famers, you become the greater fighter, thats all.

 

I don't think a win over that version of Harada (who didn't have enough experience at that point, and has just moved up from flyweight half a year before) means more than beating the reigning undefeated champ of the world, moving up to 154 and losing on split points to future HOFer, beating future middleweight titlist twice and pretty much finishing the career of another former titlist.

 

Harada had been fighting at that weight for a good year and a half, and had already beaten the likes of Kingpetch (twice if we're being realistic) and Ebihara so I'd say he had a decent level of experience going in. I don't think you can claim, after watching the Kingpetch fights that he was green. Fighting the best fighter (Medel) at bantamweight that he had faced up until that point? Sure, but he wasn't green and was well adjusted enough at the weight.

About Vaca's fight with Norris, the only reason that decision was split was because it occurred in Vaca's backyard. He didn't do enough to win or even draw that fight.

 

I wouldn't count a few overweight fights vs tomato cans and a loss to Esparza as fighting at bantamweight for 1.5 years and being adjusted to that weight. He was still a flyweight by that point, his fights vs Kingpetch were at flyweight too. He was somewhat lacking experience in ability to pace himself properly, which is critical for his style.

It's still only a split decision loss on Vaca's record, regardless of circumstances, and overall Vaca has more to brag about than Medel, how I see it. But that's not the point, like I said both lacked consistency to be praised too much.

 

He did fight cans there until he took on Medel but the Esparza fight itself was a good 15 months prior to the Medel bout.

I'm not sure pacing himself had anything to do with the Medel loss. It was more to do with getting hit sweet by a good bantam hitter.

I'm not sure when Harada learnt to pace himself either (to be ready for Jofre when I suppose you think he hit his prime) because he didn't have another bout going over ten tounds from the time of the Kingpetch remtach until he took on Jofre.

Well, I'll agree with your ultimate conclusion.