Educate me on Ali vs Louis

Louis was the most dominant heavyweight in history, he had the longest reign as champion and his 25 defenses are a record, not just most out of any heavyweight champ, but most of any champ in a single division. That alone is a great argument for his heavyweight goat status, and he had some decent competition. (For the record, I have Louis and Ali tied for heavyweight goat). Louis is definitely a top heavyweight, I'd argue he's a top 3 staple, you should watch some footage and read his boxrec. He was a very strong fighter.

As for a fight, again, you should watch some Louis fights. Louis was a fierce puncher and pretty well rounded, accurate and powerful. He's had some trouble with movers, like the case against Billy Conn, but he always managed to land his bombs to level the playing field. Personally I think the fight is 50/50, Ali could steal a decision but if Louis catches Ali, he could do some serious damage.

 

Whether he was greater than Ali, and whether he would have beaten him, are two separate questions.

It would be possible to argue that Louis's body of work was superior, while still thinking that Ali would have beaten him.

So you have given us two questions to address there.

The argument for Louis's resume, would be that while his opposition appeared to be weaker, he was more consistent. He only lost when he was either very green, or very far past his best. You could also argue that the argument for Ali's best opponents being better, hung on the circular logic of them having beaten him.

OK, so what about the question of who would have won? Most of the arguments that I have read for Louis winning, are that he could have employed a fight plan involving subtle pressure, and a sustained body attack. This could plausibly have led to a Ken Norton style victory. Louis also adapted better in rematches, and that could be used to argue that he would have done better in a series of three.

 

I think the speed and size of the young Ali would be too much for Louis. The post-exile Ali is another matter. If Ali ever started trading punches with Louis, it would be too bad Jim. To me, one of Louis' most important legacies is the unsurpassed beauty of his technique. His films can be of great assistance in teaching youngsters how to leverage and throw almost every type of punch.

 

The speed, chin and guile of Ali imo, sees him win a clear UD over any distance. I simply can't see this fight having that much of a realistic chance to go the other way. Ali was simply the best imo, whether you're looking at resume or h2h.

 

Until Ali came along, Louis was the perfect Heavyweight and just about every Heavyweight was coached in his image. Economy of movement, dominant jab and as previously mentioned, the ability to knock a man out with just about any punch. Please watch some film of him.
Ali of course broke every single rule, a ridiculous natural talent who also had an iron chin and bottomless courage. I find separating them as 1 and 2 impossible.
As to who would have won between them, I think Ali could have read Louis and used his freakish reflexes and footspeed to make Joe load up and miss time and again. Just watch how Walcott sold Louis a feint and moved the other way.
Ali on points quite widely but that's down to style rather than superior ability.

 

I rate both Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis as the two greatest heavyweights of all time and feel they’re interchangeable for the number one spot. I have no issue with anyone who chooses to rate one slightly over the other. Both were Great and both had achievements of very different strengths. Joe Louis had shear dominance as well as delivering some of the most devastating performances in heavyweight history. Ali had the tremendous ability to overcome great odds to beat elite opponents who many doubted he could defeat - Foreman and Liston to name at least two. Both had a very long list of scalps over men who held the heavyweight title at one time or another and a seemingly endless list of ranked contenders..

Who would win in an actual meeting ? At one point I heavily favored Muhammad Ali but these days I have it closer to 50/50. While Ali could certainly take Louis’s punches and box well from a distance, Joe had the ability to close the gap and land lightening fast combinations which included left hooks ( Ali’s Achilles heel. ) Both guys could go fifteen rounds and had excellent ring generalship among other top qualities.

Who do I like better for personal reasons ? I don’t know. Ali was a colorful character who was amusing to watch and had a feeling which defined the very essence of confidence. Joe Louis was more of a quiet man who had the ora of a blue collar work horse and valued the virtue of charity as he made many donations.. both great men in their own ways.

 

Perhaps the similarities between this pair, are more important than the differences?

Yes they have very different styles, and personalities, but their records both standout!

They both smashed records, in terms of longevity, and defenses against ranked opponents, and no champions before or since, came particularly close to either!

You din't have to wait for these men to defend against a ranked contender, they would probably do it next month!

 

So what was Louis’s bum of the month all about then ?

 

It wasn’t a phrase to describe his opponents as actual “bums.” There was a period in the late 30s and early 40s where Louis was fighting prolifically and destroying literally every man who got in the ring with him. Some contenders were better than others but there were quite a few good ones. Bum of the month was just a name the newspapers came up with.

 

I think Louis could have taken the more stationary Ali of say the Foreman fight,,,but the 67 version? probably not.

 

Wouldnt argue with anyone picking louis although i do favour Ali. You mention the left hook being Alis achilles heel and whilst thats fair enough, it has to be pointed out that joe was pretty susceptible to the straight right hand, which Ali was no slouch with either

 

When Louis was pummeling everyone, the paper's called who ever he beat the "bum of the month". It didn't make them a bum, that's just what they were called after Louis beat them. So whilst there were some dreadful opponents, there were some excellent ones as well.

Ali had a similar stretch in the early 70s, between Frazier 1 and Foreman.

 

A young Ali v A young Louis.
Muhammed imo takes it, he'd beat Joe, stopping him in 12. And I don't see it been that close. Young Louis v older Ali may be different, if Muhammad s not moving as much I give Louis a chance, but even then I still favour Ali. I just belive Alis style, pre Folley especially, was all wrong for Joe. But no disrespect to the Brown Bomber, who's a absolute legend.

 

I have Louis second only to Ali, with Holmes third.

Joe Louis at times seemed like a boxing Miracle. He had some of the most freakily amazing, effective, powerful combinations ever. And he had fantastic heart. I honestly think he would have given Ali the fight of his life (and, given the post-draft Ali, won a UD).

60s Ali was beyond a Miracle, there hasn't been anyone like him yet imo (at least in the heavyweight division). His jab was terrific, and his hand speed supernatural. Though Joe had a ton of heart, I don't think he could have taken that many punches, and Ali's mobility would have foiled him again and again. Though Ali couldn't keep Joe down, he stops him in 14.