Educate Me On Roberto Duran...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KO_King, Apr 27, 2024.


  1. KO_King

    KO_King Horizontal Heavyweight Full Member

    607
    1,277
    Apr 16, 2023
    I'm sure this will annoy some people - And it's not meant to. But, if I'm being honest, I've always been slightly perplexed as to why Roberto Duran is ranked so highly on many all time boxing lists (top 10 of all time in some cases).
    Im not trying to take anything away from him. I get that he's a legend. I get that he was ferocious at the lower weights. I get that he had some amazing wins. But he also had some puzzling - and catastrophic - losses. And obviously came out worse in most of the fights from that 1980s rivalry.
    Perhaps it's because I missed the 1980s era. But I do consider myself pretty up on boxing history - I've been a fan for nearly 30 years. I have read up on him and watched his biggest fights. But I didn't come away with the same feeling as I did with Ali or Ray Robinson, for example. Where I totally get their lofty ranking.
    So this is not designed to be a gaudy post. I genuinely want to hear explanations of why he's rated so highly, historically, in the hope I can understand him better.
     
    ron davis likes this.
  2. davidjay

    davidjay Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,249
    809
    Feb 23, 2009
    He was the naturally lightest of the Four Kings. The others were welter and upwards while he was a lightweight. Basically, he was one mean hombre.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,851
    45,596
    Mar 21, 2007
    Ray Leoanrd is one of the three or four best welterweights there have ever been. For some he is the best. A natural lightweight should not be able to defeat him. The equivalent would be Hearns finding a way past Hagler. Duran's victory over Leonard is arguably the best win that exists, in all of boxing. It was an astonishing achievement.

    He also had one of the best ever runs at lightweight and its clearly one of the greatest lightweights in history. An outside argument for GOAT status in his own division plus the greatest win in boxing history is already getting him there. But Duran-Barkley was another almost impossible feat. I don't think there's another long-term lightweight in boxing history that could have beaten an aggressive, huge, punching middleweight like Barkley. Barkley isn't great but that victory for Duran is unreal. Final piece of the jigsaw is his appearance on film which is as impressive to most obsessed fans as literally anyone.

    Take all together and it is obviously as elite as a body of work can get. As for losses, yes, there are many, but Langford had many, Robinson had 20 off the top of my head, Greb was into double figures I think, Armstrong was well into double figures. The point is, when you really dare to be great you can't avoid those losses - it is impossible. You can't find Hearns, Hagler and Leonard from lightweight and not lose most of those fights. If he had won most of those fights, we probably wouldn't even debate the number one slot.
     
    Paul McB, Seamus, tee_birch and 14 others like this.
  4. Dorrian_Grey

    Dorrian_Grey Just taking a break, folks Full Member

    2,258
    3,680
    Apr 20, 2024
    Dominated 135 for years, was a force of nature down at the weight and had excellent wins over Ken Buchanan (who I consider a top 10 LW), Hiroshi Kobayashi, Ray Lampkin, Guts Ishimatsu, both Viruet brothers, Masataka Takayama, and Esteban De Jesus. Was also a monster at 147 with wins over Palomino, Monroe Brooks, and of course, his win over a prime SRL in the Brawl in Montreal, which is arguably the greatest win in the history of the sport. He then had a strong run at 154, beating European champion Luigi Minchillo, Pipino Cuevas, and his brutalising of Davey Moore for the title. He then held off a prime Hagler until the final bell, making him look mortal, and coming only a couple rounds away from pulling off the upset. Then you have his MW title run, a division he had no right to be in, where he captured the MW crown from Iran Barkley, who had knocked out Hearns in his previous fight, and the two of them produce an absolute war and one of the best fights of all time with Duran just edging out the much younger man. Add on top of that the fact Duran should have been given the nod against Vinnie Pazienza and Hector Camacho when he was old as dirt. He is easily the best fighter alive and I have him comfortably in my P4P top 10. Yes he has losses but anyone else going through that gauntlet wouldn't drop a few decisions and I think Hearns was just a bad style who had his number, Benitez was a skilful, crafty technician and an excellent talent, and Laing was a close SD when Duran was in possibly the worst condition of his life and coming off his Benitez loss. His achievements are too exemplary and too extraordinary for his losses to detract too much from what is a stellar career.
     
  5. Marvelous_Iron

    Marvelous_Iron Active Member Full Member

    1,039
    1,265
    Jul 9, 2022
    His win over SRL is eclipsed only by Frazier beating Ali

    And no other 135 would be able to come up to MW and bang with Hagler for 15 like he did
     
    Paul McB, Silver, Seamus and 3 others like this.
  6. PRW94

    PRW94 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,876
    3,220
    Nov 26, 2020
    He was a warrior. Mic drop.
     
    davidjay, Clinton and Fireman Fred like this.
  7. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

    7,735
    12,861
    Oct 20, 2017
    In terms of the highest highs and lowest lows, no-one has ever had a career quite like Duran’s. He’s a unique figure in the history of the sport.
     
  8. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,032
    2,371
    Apr 15, 2012
    Such a gifted boxer, punching well from EVERY angle. Very rare company there.

    Ray Leonard, probably, the most famous/popular boxer at that time (boxing was MUCH more popular then.. Leonard was a household name) was the favorite over lightweight Duran.. but the Duran advocates were 110% confident, and vocal, that their man would win. I still remember what it felt like for Duran to beat Leonard at that time.. hard to believe. Not that Duran wasn't respected, but he was taking on what was (already) considered to be the best welterweight since Sugar Ray Robinson.

    That was 1980, but Duran himself was considered the best lightweight of the 70's, near GOAT status, living legend.

    He liked to party, though (super popular). That tripped him up, even as gifted as he most definitely was.
     
    Clinton and Fireman Fred like this.
  9. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    28,186
    33,853
    Jan 8, 2017
    He was a SOB in the ring, right up to his last fight.
     
    Clinton and Fireman Fred like this.
  10. Turnip mk3

    Turnip mk3 Active Member Full Member

    876
    935
    Feb 6, 2021
    He was incredible. If a film was made about him as a story it would be said to be far fetched
     
  11. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    24,879
    8,022
    Jul 17, 2009
    One of the best ever P4P and arguably the greatest Lightweight ever.
     
    Clinton and Fireman Fred like this.
  12. Romero

    Romero Slapping Enthusiast Full Member

    276
    368
    Mar 27, 2024
    A lot of losses that might confuse you, you must understand the fire goes out eventually. Roberto Duran was a daily drinker even during his years at 135lbs, His lifestyle and accomplishments really can explain away some losses as much as that isn’t usually in fashion. “Hands of Stone” had the night of his life and the sun came up and that Roberto Duran was gone.
     
    Philosopher and Fireman Fred like this.
  13. Romero

    Romero Slapping Enthusiast Full Member

    276
    368
    Mar 27, 2024
    Speaking of lows something to consider someone whose integrity I would not question who was there, said Roberto Duran would drink a bottle of alcohol a day even in preparation for Esteban De Jesus 2.
     
    Fireman Fred likes this.
  14. Fireman Fred

    Fireman Fred Active Member Full Member

    523
    1,280
    Mar 8, 2014
    There was a film made in 2016 which goes up to the Davey Moore. Pretty good:

    This content is protected
     
    Turnip mk3 and Clinton like this.
  15. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,040
    6,252
    Jan 22, 2009
    Superb post, Matt. Cheers!!!
     
    Greg Price99 likes this.