Educate Me On Roberto Duran...

Hi Buddy.
Like your post and points, Duran was indeed the best LW of the 70s, and I have him second to Leonard on the Lightweight ladder, and prob make most posters top 10 P4P, the only area I am not on board with is the win over Leonard, quite a few on here have stated the win is the greatest of all time, and 2nd only to the FOTC, my take on this fight is that Leonard was trying to prove a point, that being he was not just a boxer, that he could also brawl if he so desired, leading up to the contest the press were on his case saying the only way he could win would be by boxing on the back foot, warning him about the perils of going in the trenches with the fearsome Duran.
So I feel that Leonard was irked by the continuous talk of him not engaging Duran and decided to prove his detractors wrong, and there were many, unwisely has it turned out, he elected to fight Durans fight, also lest we forget he only lost by a very slim margin, also Duran was not a lightweight at fight time, they both weighed 145, as we know by the return fight a Leonard fighting his type of fight was all too much for Duran , so I have no reason to believe that had he fought the 1st fight in this fashion he would have won quite convincingly, of course we will never know, so I do not view the win in Montreal in the same vein as others, just my opinion .
stay safe slash, chat soon matey.

 

I think you might be detracting too heavily from Duran's victory in the Brawl in Montreal. Yes, Leonard chose to fight on the front-foot, but that was his decision, that was his and Angelo Dundee's game-plan, if Leonard and his team chose the wrong game-plan, then that is their fault, and it was Duran's job to punish however Leonard chose to fight. I personally think that Montreal Leonard fought in a way more akin to his usual style than the one that fought Duran in New Orleans. I mean, look at how prime Leonard hunted down Hearns, Benitez, or Kalule, he didn't win those fights by dancing on the back-foot and outboxing his opponents, but by taking the fight to them and outworking them onto stoppages. It was only after he came back from retirement that Leonard began "running" only to flurry in the last 30 seconds of rounds. Besides, I've always been of the conviction that taking the fight to a pressure fighter and forcing them on the back-foot where they're uncomfortable is a better strategy than trying to outbox them and letting them get comfortable on the front-foot where they can cut off the ring, which seemed to be the plan in Montreal but Duran was no ordinary pressure fighter and was too layered, skilful, and ferocious for prime Leonard.

 

The old, "Leonard fought the wrong fight myth " was invented by his fans and media to explain away his loss. Dr. Ferdie Pacheco who knew, said talking to Dundee and Ray that,,Leonard was bigger, faster, younger and being a natural welter probably stronger. Pacheco said the plan was to take out Duran in 4 or 5 rounds as he'd never tasted power like Rays at 147 and he'd be there to hit coming at him. You're right about Ray fighting like he always did, he just ran into the an all time pound for pound great.

 

One of his not-really mentioned feats are lasting a distance with peak Marvin Hagler,and while I'm not that much of a very biased Duràn fan scoring the fight I thought it could be a draw.(Marvin still retains title, it's a win-win)

 

It gets mentioned .....all.....the.....time.

 

The reasons people rate him as highly as they do

1)Him being smaller
2)His longevity.
3)He beat Barkley a LHW champ though this was 160. Leonard was also technically a LHW champ too though Duran beat him at 147.
4)People in this era are very generous to fighters who challenged thremselves and took Ls because no one does that today.
5)Being one of the best 135ers ever. I do not watch or follow weight classes below 140 at all but its a factor I guess.

I agree with you though. I grew up with Manny who started at 112 going up to 147 and 154 and winning most of his fights so what Duran did really doesn't land for me. IMO Leonard, Hagler and Beneitzs size advantages weren't dramatic enough to justify the amount of deference Duran is given. And by deference I mean topping P4P GOAT lists and most having him as the best of the big 4 with the worst H2H nor title reigns north of 135.

 

It’s not so much that he isn’t everything people say he is. It’s more that people aren’t deeply educated in the great Lightweights through history, so Durán gets all the attention when there were as good & better 135 & even 147lbers who don’t receive a fraction of the attention.

 

In addition to the accomplishments cited by many here (arguably best ever at 135, add in beating Leonard and then up to 154 for Davey Moore and 160 for Barkley) … as they say in football, film don’t lie.

Watch him and he’s a marvel. Could swarm, box and slug — and switch to any of these on a dime as needed. Probably as gifted as anyone ever with a ring IQ that’s off the charts. Inside, outside, front foot, back foot … ye could do it all.

 

But most people just brush off the decision, that's what I want to bring up,many says it's lopsided but for me, it's very close.

 

Hagler won comfortably for mine. The scoring was terrible.

 

There's different ways to score for people anyway,but from my take, Duràn did outpunch and landed better shots on Hagler at times,I see your point though.

 

Hi Buddy.
Of course we are all entitled to our opinion on all and every fighter, that said, I am struggling to think of a better LW than Duran, there are two that run him close, Gans and Leonard, personally I have Leonard a fraction above him ( just ) so I suppose I can think of a better LW, as for Lightweights that were as good, not seeing it, as good as the likes of Williams, Ortiz, Ross, and Brown were, none were as good as Roberto, in my opinion, judging by your post you are of a different view point, of which you are fully entitled as I have said.
stay safe Ney, chat soon buddy.

 

A breakdown of his skillset:

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McGrain and Dorian Grey make the case perfectly.

If you make a survey of top ten boxer resume lists in the last 75 years, and top ten boxer h2h lists in the last 75 years, you will likely see Roberto Duran on most lists.

 

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To really get Duran you gotta see some of his fights at 135lbs. Duran was dominant as well as devastating.
12 title defenses 11 by knockout. He did set a record for consecutive knockouts in championships fights with 10.

In that division you ran from him or you got savagely beaten. Actually you could run and get caught and savagely beaten.

If Duran had retired in 1978 the way Benny Leonard did he's first ballot. Everything after that is more or less icing.