I'll be the first to admit my boxing knowledge in terms of depth is mostly from the 70's and early 80's era's. As such, I've tended to bypass the earlier years, although ive been reading a ton in the classic forum over the past few days trying to get a better knowledge of the 30's/40's/50's characters. Two guys that get mentioned a lot here, and who im intruiged about, are Langford and Moore. Yes I could go to boxrec or wikipdia and read all about them, but I would appreciate from the horses mouth's some analysis on the guys from you guys, what was there crowing achievements, did anything go wrong, how would they compete today and pound for pound.:good _____________________________________________________ I'm going to try and spend more time in the classic forum now, at McGrains requestD, and think I could add some good debate in my specialist area, the 70's. But you all need to educate my ass pre 60's. Of course I know about the main characters, etc etc. Ive enjoyed reading some of the posts over the past few days, some superb posters in here which makes me wish there was a general forum only accessible by classic posters. Monzon is god. :smoke Cheers
I got Sam Langford down as #1 p4p all time. He has wins over all time greats across 4 weight divisions, from Gans, down at about 140lbs, through Tiger Flowers at 160, up to 175 where he has wins over greats Philidelphia Jack O'Brien and Kid Norfolk, before finally going up to HW, where he has wins over guys like McVea and Wills. Johnson, who held a win over a greener version of Langford, ducked him fiercely as champion, and with reason. Langford was one of the greatest KO artists who ever lived, had an iron chin, freakish physical strength. For a guy who started of at around 140 these are incredible achievments. Yes he has losses, but Langford fought all the way through the weight classes and laterly with eye trouble. It is said that Langford already was suffering in terms of his vision when his eyes were injured in a fight with Fred Fulton in 1917 or 18. So he has wins over guys like Bill Tate and Sam McVea with parial sight. What film there is shows a fighter who looks open, but perhaps has the power and iron jaw to make it worth it. He also shows cracking footwork. I think that Langford could beat more fighters from the history of the fight game than any other, being a massive head to head threat from 160 through to heavy.
Cheers for the reply. Number one pound for pound, wow. Just wow. I didn't expect to hear that. Looks to me like i've looked past some great fighters due to them being around in the war era. I never realised he started off that low, that is unheard of. Could you imagine someone trying to do that nowadays. Not possible. What would you rank him relative to the divisions he fought in roughly rather than P4P? Wouldn't mind reading a book on him now, you know of any to recommend? Just browsing through his record now, its phenomenol.:shock:
I think top 25 in the heavyweight division, he may bo to small to have much higher than 18, 19, but Janitor has him in the top 10 for example - he certainly has a most excellent HW resume, better than a lot of fighters you'd consider a lock for the top 15. Light-heavyweight is said to be his best division, and the one he would be peaking in if he fought these days, but it seems more likely to me that he would end his career in that division, mabye doing his best work at 160. Hard to be sure though, physically he was a phenomenum, a Tyson. Basically, the guy has KO power in both hands, which he carried late (KO29 Harry Wills FFS), incredible durability and stamina, an iron jaw. His greatest attribute was rumoured to be his generalship ("whatever the other fella wants to do, make sure he can't) and he certainly had tidy feet. He's one of those fighters it is just hard to pick against, whatever the modernists might say. I don't know of any great Langford books, sorry. I think there is a new one out though, maybe have a nose on Amazon? Check out his film, too. He's on YouTube and I actually think there is an upload in the film section of ESB!
Archie Moore if the king of longevity. He took on the best most dangerous fighters ranging from middleweight/light-H/Heavyweights ranging in 3 different decades, and he did very well against the field. On film he is a tricky master crafty technician with extrordinary punching power and finishing ability. He is the All Time Knockout king in the history of boxing. Typically he ranks among the top 3 light-Heavyweights of all time.
Also regarding Langford, a number of his fights were said to be possible fixes, which is quite probable in fact given the era he fought in and the conditions of black fighters(and not just black) and the sport in those days. Just giving another reason for his high amount of losses in between the amazing wins resume.
Langford P4P hardest puncher of all-time for me. For a man who began his career at lightweight and who stands at 5'8" to be KO'ing the likes of Wills, McVea and Gunboat Smith I think is remarkable. Moore was a huge hitter aswell with the most stoppages of all time if I'm right in saying with 131 in 175 wins I think it is. Moore I would rate as top 3 of all-time at 175, Langford top 3 p4p of all-time.
