Edwin Valero what a waste!

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Edwin called Pac-DLH, too, incidentally;

"Pacquiao is going to knock Oscar out. I was the one who gave Oscar the black eye. Ask him who did it. I got kicked out of Big Bear because of that. I only sparred with Oscar for eight rounds because after those eight rounds, Oscar didn’t want to spar with me anymore. I hurt Oscar a lot."


I don't see why it should matter that Linares is such a nice guy and Edwin wasn't, anyway (which is exactly what drives the disparity in how they're regarded). How many people here can claim to be nice, when so many struggle with basic civility over boxing opinions?

 

Just an opinion not the Word of God....My good friend seen him come to training and he would run 4 to 5 miles in a sweat suit Spar with anyone who wanted to and some times Spar with 3 or 4 Fighters and knock them all out with Head Gear on......no doubt a majority of his fights were with sub standard fighters but i know a lot of Trainers and People in Boxing that believe because of His insane Power for his weight He would have given Pac a huge fight some say he would have TKOd Him...not what I think personally but I think a Fight with Pac would have been 50/50......Again not the Word of God just an opinion.!!!

 

He's been horribly overrated his whole career. Even as recently as 2017, Kellerman was still pulling out the Robbie comparisons. He's generally venerated on these pages and given a lot of passes. I don't see a defensible argument for him being underrated. Only the opposite.


I mentioned Linares for reasons easily interpreted. He has received pass after pass for coming up short and never really doing a great deal of substantial winning work at world class, whereas Valero is denigrated and scoffed at for never really doing a great deal of substantial winning work at world class. Linares has the advantage of having had a full career to get something done which might justify his grotesque hype, and we're still waiting for it.

 

Linares >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Valero (in every category except chin), end of story.

The "we missed out having a potential ATG" bandwagon is an objectively embarrassing one to be on, from an outside perspective...and yet for a decade now those on it have inured themselves all to cognitive dissonance with constant doubling-down and pretending the rest of us Just. Can't. See. It.

 

Not by my lights, not even close. And he would have been destroyed by Valero, t'boot.

 

Someone put up a Poll was Edwin Valero potential World Class or over rated....

 

He very well might've but only because Linares has a weak chin and occasionally imperfect (whilst generally quite good) defense, and so can on a given night lose to durable heavy-handed guys that are levels below him.

Valero was a fast-handed big puncher. Not all that especially fast, and not the GOAT puncher...and not some brilliantly skilled boxer puncher as the Incamania fangirl club believes. He was overall just so-so ...and wouldn't have stood a chance of beating, say, Pacquiao. In ten fights with Pac he gets destroyed with ease in nine. The hype is unrelenting with this guy - I thought so while he was active but posthumously it has gotten exponentially worse.

 

Well, that's exactly how I feel about Linares. I don't understand how anybody has held on to the notion that he's so many levels above. Talented he may be, but he's not a particularly smart or especially rounded fighter at all.

Criminy, he had a pretty darn close first fight with Anthony Crolla and had his trials with Kevin Mitchell. And I have every reason to go to bat for Anthony Crolla, he's from a good Italian family in the Manchester area. I was always a Kevin Mitchell fan. But those guys never proved themselves much above fringe standard, paper belts aside. And Linares didn't look flights and flights above them at all.


Valero was much more nuanced than Linares. I agree that he wasn't the fastest guy out there, but he didn't need to be.

 

To clarify, I think that Kevin would have been a good world class B fighter, if he'd had his act together the whole time.

Crolla was a pure overachiever, a guy with a lot of moxie and dedication who wrung the absolute most he could've out of modest potential. If Linares had been that classy, their first fight should never have been as competitive as it was.

I know what Valero would have done with both of those lads.

Nobody really talks about him. In a little over a week, he'll be a decade gone, so I thought it was a good time to bump a few threads and see if people might be able to respect a little diversity of thought without reflexively copping a squat on the guy as soon as someone says something positive about him. Talking about boxers on a boxing forum isn't so unusual.

If we're not being told to keep his name out of conversation, we're being told that discussing his talent and speculating as to his chances in matchups is tantamount to saying he was a lock for ATGness.

In reality, the statements made on his account are generally more modest;

Certainly more modest than suggesting that Jorge Linares is flights above him, after failing to look flights above fighters more ordinary than Valero.


What's the deal with wanting to police thought on certain boxers and fights?

 

I remember seeing him in a Golden Boy PPV called Lightweight Lightning a long time ago. I can't remember against who.

 

Antonio Pitalua;

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Has anyone ever heard Erik Morales recount about his experience sparring Valero.
Morales stated Valero hits hard but that he's not the hardest puncher he's ever sparred in a gym.
Morales went on to name about 3 fighters he's fought or sparred with that hit harder than Valero.

Morales went on to recall that in a sparring session Valero went at him untypically hard for a sparring session, "he unexpectedly layed in on me when I wasn't really expecting him to do that in a sparring session that lasted 2 rounds."
A few days later in the gym, Morales tells Valero to put his gear on, "we're sparring 4 rounds today."
Valero didn't want to, "Vamos carbon, vamos a ir 4 rounds."
Morales went on to explain that Valero did'n like to spar more than a round or 2 and that when they sparred 4 rounds, it was Morales the one that layed it on Valero. LOL!


Bottom line is that Valero was unproven against top opposition. I highly doubt we'd be talking about him as a great fighter today had he lived and went on with his career. The few fights I saw of him I didn't see anything that would make me think he would become a special fighter.

 

Here's some footage of them Sparring....they went 2 Rounds and after watching Video Valero consistently picks him off this was when Morales was Preparing for the Pac Fight....If I was scoring the 2 Rounds would give Valero the Win.!!!! Valero white shirt..
Go to 2 Minute mark...

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Campbell >>> DeMarco. In fact, if you want a poster boy for underrated, look at Luke Campbell. Mitchell too, probably.

Your entire argument for Valero > Linares is "oh but X beat him and Y didn't"? Yeah Linares has the chin of a twelve year old, but he's unbelievably skilled, very quick, very accurate and his wins over Campbell (however close), Crolla and Mitchell aren't to be scoffed at. You also say he was unfairly touted as a threat for Lomachenko? He did drop Loma...

People tend to like skills, as opposed to wild swinging. It's the difference between a Joshua and a Wilder.

If Linares and Valero fought, it'd be a boxing exhibition unless Linares is caught.

 

Valero and Linares both trained out the tieken gym in Japan
any one who says Valero ain't skilled dksab
Every trainer that paid eyes on him said he was a special fighter
He brother Luis however is dog****