Effective Nutrition for Weight Loss while training very hard

Easy, swap most of your protein for carbs. A gram of carbohydrate has the same amount of energy as a gram of protein. Carbs get their weight gain rep because they turn to fat if they are high GI and not used for physical activity. If you're losing weight you don't hammer the carbs, you just carefully monitor your intake and adjust for your physical activity needs. It's almost hard to not get enough protein. When you lose weight you are going to lose some amount of muscle but at least if you have a higher ratio of carbs you'll feel alright while you do it.
I'd say listen to your body, if you feel better on a high protein diet then go for it, it would go against what the literature says but how you feel is the most important thing. Any calorie deficit will have you lose the weight regardless.

 

I'll reply to this tomorrow, I have plenty to say

 

no worries, you don't have to, its verging on offtopic, you can make a new thread of it if you like, but I don't have MUCH more to say on the matter.

 

How do you guys feel about simple carbs? DO you try to cut them out all together or limit them or do you welcome a certain amount so that you can use it for energy? :think

 

Just to throw it out there, also remember it's important not to neglect fats in your diet, which is why MrSmalls example deficit included 50g of fat.

Not necessarily. I'm on the bodybuilding.com forum all the time and if you ask anyone in the nutrition section they'll tell you all you need is 1g of protein per lb of LBM to preserve muscle during almost any diet. (Lifters often chose CKD diets for example because while they're meant to burn body fat and maintain muscle, some people actually burn fat AND gain muscle on them).

P.S. - Just wanted to back lefty's claim about the pre/post workout shake. It's definitely been shown to be better pre-workout than post (not to necessarily say post workout shakes are bad, just that pre-wo is better).

 

you don't need to lose muscle to lose "weight", if your protein intake is sufficient and you arne't doing anything daft.
timing of shakes and stuff is not nearly as important as the overall picture, don't get caught up in small details people. Ronnie coleman didn't have a post workout shake, and you can bet your ass Ali didn't!

 

i would listen to the person who trained the olympic gold medalist, who also most likely hold masters and phd's in the field.

take remy korchemny for example, a track and field legend, and coach, he learnt most of the stuff about nutrition from victor conte.

 

When you lose weight you're always going to lose some muscle mass.

Bodybuilding.com is a very poor site to use for evidence. The forums are full of kids that have no idea about anything.

 

You can have simple carbs just before or after a workout. I've heard of many sprinters that eat a banana (simple carbs I believe.... maybe) before a sprint to give them a bit more energy.

 

There is very little right and wrong in this area of life, just better and worse.
Most things are a lot simpler than what people try to make them.

If you eat ****, you will look like **** body composition wise. If you eat clean, you will have a leaner body composition. Clean means good carbs around activity times mostly, moderate to high protein, moderate amount of fat.

The thing is, if you are training for performance, carbs are paramount, protein not AS important. This is not up for discussion. Try doing some paleo diet and then doing boxing for more than 2 sessions.

If you have an issue with BODYWEIGHT or BODY COMPOSITION (too much fat for your liking/weight class, i.e a pudgy 80kg guy who should be in the 75kg if he was lean), you must sort it both with diet and a little bit of cardio, but since performance is important the nutrition takes a slightly "harder" role. On your off days if you eat like ****, or at least a lot of carbohydrates, your body will attempt to store them, or you will at least hold some more water weight. If you get the majority of your calories on these days from protein sources and lower carbs and moderate fat, your body will use fat as fuel and not sacrifice muscle through catabolism, it's that simple.

But that's bodybuilding and it doesn't work for boxing, right?

And building some muscle to replace the fat weight you have lost/will lose/are losing (if you want to stay the same weight) will make your metabolism faster and keep future fat gains at bay a little more.

Of course the weighin and its timing plays a big role (if it is 24hour or 1 hour), but by and large you should avoid this sort of "cutting" weight near fight time, you want to fight in a similar state as you train, well fed and hydrated and slept.

 

YES!

You will lose SOMETHING but you will never really know how much if you do things right (i.e you don't lost a tremendous amount of muscle so that it is noticeable), and it depends how fast or slowly you lose it.

 

Well this is why I like to stay neutral, because they'd probably say the same about the people on this forum. Neutrality seems to be the best option. But I'm not using bodybuilding.com as a be-all end-all source of info, but obviously it's full of people who's lives are dedicated to losing fat/gaining muscle/transforming their body, and seeing what works and what doesn't, so I don't believe it's correct to say no one knows anything over there.

Can you explain? 99% of what I've come across (even if you google anything about losing fat while maintaining muscle) talks about sufficient protein amounts in terms of your LBM. I'm interested in your take on all this since I'm always up for learning anything nutrition-related.

 

I would agree with the second paragraph, it also depends on your training, if it can stay the same with less carbs/fats etc.

And when it comes to "not taking sides", you learn whatever you want from wherever you want, but you compare both the results it gets you, the results it got other people, and the results of the people talking about them. And have in mind that a lot of research tests are done on non-training folk, or other books were written with professional athletes in mind with a high level of restoration activity, as well as an intake of anabolic steroids.

If you are trying to get educated, read from a lot of sources, try some stuff out yourself, and come to your own conclusions, so you are doing the right thing I think!

 

And two other things, after talking to my brother, that I think I should post, things I forgot to mention because they are so embedded in my mind at this point. Roughly offtopic but just thought I'd say some more, I really am on this forum a lot today (these days.. etc )

People looking for the optimal never find it and never progress, it's a curse of the information age, people think if they look hard enough they'll find the answer.
But they look online instead of UNDER THE BAR, so to speak, or in the ring, or in the kitchen in this thread's case.

 

good point , something i think everyone with internet acsess is or has been guilty of