Effective Nutrition for Weight Loss while training very hard

Thanks Lefty. I always have that problem using lbs. Makes sense.:good

 

Only an idiot would deny the validity of scientific endeavours. Likewise, only an idiot believes everything he reads..

To be fair to Lefty he's well 'read'. MrSmall is clearly experienced, however..

True pioneers never eschew science. But they have an innate desire to discover things first hand, not just blindly follow what someone else has written.

That's why all the "**** off I'm a sports scientist" stuff rubs certain people, myself included, up the wrong way.

To be fair, Lefty and MrSmall have posted some interesting material. Cheers guys.

 

Ok I will be more specific in the future Ylem

 

You realise I am not just paraphrasing, he actually said that? Anyway, this is good way of rounding things up to be fair, live and let live and all that. I have posted why I think that you should do things yourself before passing them on just through reading unless its a VERY credible source, such as most of the soviet papers and books, as opposed to some guy taking 20 people, 10 high fat, 10 high carb, testing them over 4 weeks, and coming to the conclusion that the guys on high fat are lethargic, moody and tired in general but might burn a bit more fat, while the high carb guys feels good, perform well and their hunger is satiated, which is remarkably what lefty's post earlier was like, even though this is so glaringly obviously misleading that it just highlights a complete lack of general knowledge or experience of anything diet related. And of course there is huge matter of agendas with this sort of thing, but that may not apply to the above case, but does to a lot of other things. Like creatine, does it benefit athletes? 8 weeks using creatine, 8 weeks without, magically, the guys on creatine performed better. No, really? Same guys say you have to load creatine right?

I used to be the same myself, looking for the "optimal" way to do everything, reading stuff, churning it back out as THE best way to do things, but after some time of actually training and implementing things myself, and getting to know successful athletes, and how the real world of sport and diet works, I have changed to completely ignore what any random research papers find, except if they are well renowned and respected athletes or scientists dealing only with good level athletes. Anyone who is a beginner, or out of shape, or fat, or inexperienced, will see good gains doing anything pretty much. Its the intermediate guys and high level guys that need the true science and optimal methods to improve and achieve great results.

So if someone is drinking a few pints a day, and his breakfast is a big bowl of Wheetos, then it doesn't take a genius to tell him to stop doing that **** in order to drop some fat does it? But if someone has a relatively clean diet and in decent shape, then that's where real life experience is needed as most cases will be highly individual. I know a sprinter and top level powerlifter, who consumes about 4-8000 calories a DAY, consistently, with 3-500 grams of protein. He is incredibly lean and trains twice a day. Go tell him that high protein is useless and all those calories are going to waste, which on paper, is what appears to be happening. But get him changing his ways, would his results be as great? Probably not.

Things are not as black and white as they can be presented to be, and in any case of decent high level athletes, they most certainly are not. Regardless I can only encourage people to try things out for themselves, and just spend some time doing what they want to be doing. Things are not overnight, and once the newbie stage is passed, things DO change and you have to be at least reach that part before you can really understand how things work.

Example, friend of mine, vegan, strongman, 37 years old, in good shape and making good progress consistently, strong guy. In a sauna, a skinnyfat out of shape guy comes up to him, they start talking. The guy hears he is a vegan, he says "oh you can't get stronger or get in good shape when vegan, you don't get all the nutrients you need.". This is exactly how it comes across when you argue that "science" says you can't do this or can do this, where there are always lots of different results when you take real world test subjects, rather than 10 men and women who are not serious athletes, get them on creatine and give them a training plan for 2 months, of course they will show improvement and the people using more supplements will do better. what they don't tell you is that you might gain some water weight, or suffer from cramps in longer sporting events. then again, you may not. you will only find out when and why that happens when you do it yourself, because for damn sure a research paper out there proving the merits of creatine isn't going to say that it has THESE possible disadvantages, that isn't the object of the study, in MOST cases.

Now you can say, that the same applies to protein. More protein = better results, but this is funded by the protein supplement companies.. Any serious trainer I knows, eats a lot of good food, which will have a lot of protein in it. If they drop these protein foods from their diet, be it powder or food, their results WILL suffer, and their recovery WILL be worse, these are simple facts, and if you can't comprehend them because SOME study somewhere says that your body can't absorb this magical number of 15grams or 25grams, well then I can't help you. Your body will absorb and use as much as it needs to recover, plain and simple, that is a huge myth that has been disproved many times. What you DON'T need is huge amounts, but by huge amounts I mean 2.5-3x bodyweight in lbs, NOT 1x bodyweight in lbs, this is a GOOD amount for a hard working athlete. This WILL vary according to goals. If you want to bulk, more. If you want to maintain, the same. If you want to lose fat, more, and replace another macronutrient, preferably carbs, so your fat is higher so your body burns more, but not at the expense of musculature due to the higher protein. This is NOT ideal for any performance athlete but it gets the job done, and if you need to lose weight, you need to lose weight. And after a few weeks your body will adapt just fine to this sort of diet. NOT ideal for long term, NOT ideal for performance athletes, I say again.

Slow work day.

 

:deal

You do need to have been on this planet for a fair few years to really get this, though.

As a young gun I thought in black and white too..

 

That's some real spit MrSmall

 

what the hell is skinnyfat ? lol

 

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Skinny but looks fat or out of shape because he has no muscle on him.
Thanks Tar baby, on both posts.

 

Skinnyfat = thin but soft.

 

I agree completely with this.
Also I never said "shut the **** up I'm a sports science student" as an argument, the only time I recall saying anything like that was when I was talking about altitude training with some neanderthals in the general forum.

 

I'll post up some stuff later mate, gotta get going to help set up at a new indoor pole vault facility. I'm working with the institute of sport here as their **** kicker

It's total calories and timing of calories, you will be cutting carbs but your ratio of carbs should be about the same as when training for performance. You said you take protein shakes so cutting those out will help alot with lowering your caloric intake. Weight loss is best done gradually and not during a time of trying to improve fitness if you can help it. Mr Small seems to have some good advice apart from the high protein part that he got butthurt about when I dared to say something.

 

You said the following to MrSmall in this forum, actually:
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288283&page=4

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:good

:good:roll:

Now let get back onto the topic at hand.

Brown bomber, whats the plan man, and how is progress? Did you say you were ill? Is it the bad aids?

 

Agree. I am curious also on how you are doing.