Elite Light Heavyweights

Pea; 11-20 fair for Saad? H2H who's the best guy you could envision him beating (other than Conteh, who I know you hold in high regard)

Actually, about Conteh; anything that changes if you put say, Conteh from the Ahumuda fight against Franklin at his best (I personally feel he's pretty damn excellent in the 2nd Johnson fight, and both Yaqui Lopez scraps, well, I always enjoy watching him fight but that's when he shows his full range IMO of toughness, punch variety and finishing ability) or any Conteh you believe to be 'the best' one.

I feel Conteh was super savvy late on, and lets go with his right hand with no obvious discomfort in the 1st Saad fight. I had him ahead by a coupla points going into the 14th round of a close fight (one of my favourites) but feel he may have capitulated against Saad at any time in his career. Saad had a way of making opponents fall apart late, persistent pressure, stone cold resistance to their full arsenal and a second/third/fourth wave of energy that must've been disheartening for opponents who had used his chin as target practice for the past ten rounds or so

 

Henry Maske.

 

I'd say they're average. I'd pick neither to beat any of the fighters we've mentioned so far.

Not going to go into it in depth but a quick summary of what I would class if pressed:

ELITE-We've already discussed. Did we say Billy Conn? He should probably have a case, not fantastic comp but quality at the weight and proved his toughness and ability to outmanouever a stronger/bigger puncher then he's ever going to see at Light Heavy when he fought Louis (is this a fair way to judge his ability at the weight? I've never seen any light-heavy footage of Conn)

World Class (if thats what you're calling it) Saad, Galindez, Conteh etc etc

Above Average-Marvin Johnson, Yaqui Lopez, Bernard Hopkins (in terms of H2H at the weight) Dariusz Michalewski (spelling?)

Average-Tarver, Johnson, whoever else.

NOT IN TERMS OF THEY ARE AVERAGE FIGHTERS I MUST STRESS!!!!

In terms of the 'the best', they are fairly average in terms of how they match up IMO.

By the way, as a fighter yourself I respect any opinion you make, and fair play for trying to improve your knowledge. Kudos for sparring with Roy as well, the man who got me into boxing (a story I relaid to Antonio Tarver who found it quite funny and made sure he touched my jaw with his left hand to let me get an idea of what musta hit Roy)

 

He certainly was....and his only negative is in being the great unfullfilled talent of his era..he forgot more than most of the top guys around today ever knew.

 

It's true of the Galindez fight that he could've grasped the title but seemed to allow Galindez to take hold of it.

yet against Marvin Johnson he showed how his composed sharp shooting could see him be so, so impressive.

 

1. Contehs boxing at mid-range and movement is sublime in that fight

2. No, he was past prime, had been plagued with hand injuries and liked partying outside the ring. Conteh was tough, not Chuvalo-esque but tough and fairly durable. I don't think we ever saw him at his utmost best. And yes, it was the will of Saad. Conteh wasn't the first fighter to get undone late against Saad. The mans style was built around his immeasurable will, iron chin and ability to punch his way out of tight spots late into a fight. The fact he was able to do this was not a measure of his opponents ability/stamina, but the fact he was able to push his opponents to the limits.

Oh, and on Conteh's weaknesses, I'd say bad hands and discipline. Was a good hitter rather than a massive one, although could bang at times (see: below clip :good) He even trained in the back of a pub for the Saad fight

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqvIhyrI_dU[/ame]

 

Mustafa himself maintained in an interview that he "wasn't ready for a Galindez" at the time...and then, only mentally perhaps. I was a huge fan of Galindez, but when I watched that fight on free tv that afternoon, I was frustrated that Mustafa wasn't asserting himself as he should have...his ship really came in though against Johnson, who though he was knocked out more cleanly by Spinks and perhaps by Saad Muhammad, was mastered and outclassed more so by Mustafa then by either one of those guys. Eddie fought with more reserve than those guys, and seemed to pull his power shots for the purpose of finessing Marvin in a subtle show of skill and dominance, IMO. The angles he gave Johnson, and his positioning in being able to use that debilitating left to the body..he seemed to casually dominate Marvin in a way that said "I can end it whenever I choose to"..he reminded me in a way of Jack Johnson that night with Johnson, in the same way that Lil Artha used to assert his dominance in a masterly, unhurried way.

 

Conteh's left hand only display of mastery over Yaqui Lopez is, along with the Ahumada fight, his greatest showings, IMO. Conteh was a fine example of the way that the guys from the 15 round era used to seperate themselves from inferior opposition.

 

Good shout:good

 

Good post Red:good

 

Conteh was just past his best in general when he fought Saad, basically going completely off the rails in the years leading up to it outside the ring.It's quite a feat that he was able to fight as well as he did, if you watch him in the Burnett bout previously it seemed he was a shot fighter.

Flea, i don't agree he was letting the right hand go against Saad.You were lucky if he threw it more than once or twice per round and often pulled it when he did.The left hooks were sporadic as well.iF anything i'd say it was his D that was as good as ever for much of the fight, maybe better as far as slipping the right goes, but i think that was due to the loss of punch resistance necessitating tightening things up a bit.In his prime he was a lot more disdainful of strict pure-boxing, like gato Gonzalez, Napoles etc,, being more concerned with getting a good enough integration of defence and offense going, without compromising staying in range and steadily countering.

A prime for prime fight Saad is going to take a helluva lot more leather, though he will have more openings to take advantage of himself.I'd wager on it being brutal.:good