Elmer Ray vs...

Sam Mcvey would have gotten clowned and destroyed by both Walcott and Charles based on the film that we have...and ray defeated Charles and Walcott at age 36.

But try to spin it off by counting rays knockout loss to Walcott in 1937 when he had just started fighting or in 1948 when Ray was 38-39 years old and had been advised to retire prior to the fight due to health concerns

Ray would walk right through Mcvey and smother him then knock him out. The prime Mcvey, not the teenager who jack Johnson fought

 

Ray was 27 when light heavyweight John Henry Lewis stopped him.What happened there?

 

You sound like Mendoza and no bigger insult can I bestow!

 

Why because I picked a fighter who defeated a prime Charles and Walcott to defeat an inferior Sam McVea?

You brought up a sparring session as a reason to criticize a fighter as if it were equivalent to a pro fight!

 

QUOTE="SuzieQ49, post: 19282666, member: 2387"]Sam Mcvey would have gotten clowned and destroyed by both Walcott and Charles based on the film that we have...and ray defeated Charles and Walcott at age 36.

But try to spin it off by counting rays knockout loss to Walcott in 1937 when he had just started fighting or in 1948 when Ray was 38-39 years old and had been advised to retire prior to the fight due to health concerns

Ray would walk right through Mcvey and smother him then knock him out. The prime Mcvey, not the teenager who jack Johnson fought[/QUOTE]
Yeah Ray had just started fighting when Walcott ko'd him in3 rounds in1937.Rays pro debut was in 1926! That makes him an 11 year veteran! You've never seen Ray and only a few seconds of McVey yet you confidently state Ray clowns him! I can only imagine you must be ****ing psychic!lol BTW Ray beat Walcott in 1946 Walcott also lost to
Maxim that year does Maxim beat McVey too?
Ray beat Charles on a split decision don't get too carried away with it!

 

I never said Ray clowns him. I said Charles and Walcott both clown Mcvey. Ray beat both Charles and Walcott

 

Yeah Ray had just started fighting when Walcott ko'd him in3 rounds in1937.Rays pro debut was in 1926! That makes him an 11 year veteran! You've never seen Ray and only a few seconds of McVey yet you confidently state Ray clowns him! I can only imagine you must be ****ing psychic!lol BTW Ray beat Walcott in 1946 Walcott also lost to
Maxim that year does Maxim beat McVey too?
Ray beat Charles on a split decision don't get too carried away with it!
M[/QUOTE]


Ray gave Charles his only loss in his prime 1946-1950. That means a lot. Charles is one of the greatest fighters who ever lived

And you’re wrong, Ray debuted in 1933 according to boxrec.

 

Yes I did ! And it was equivalent to a pro fight Ray tried to take Burley's head off because Burley made him look a chump so Burley took him out.I've read the report,have you?

 

The observation still stands, you've never seen Ray and only a few brief seconds of McVey!

 

Thanks MF

Not only was Ray a former alligator wrestler, he was also a veteran of the Southern Battle Royale circuit, a fight game in which 10 men would be put in the ring together and have a winner-take-all throwdown- Ray was known as "King of the Battle Royale" as a result of his winning over 60 of the contests.

Here is some relevant newspaper material with regards to the fear of Ray within his era:
"Elmer (Violent) Ray has the extraordinary distinction of being the only man Joe Louis wouldn't even meet in an exhibition. Louis boxed Dan Merritt of Cleveland instead, and stood watching as Ray, a crowding weaver andbobber with the speed of a swift middleweight, ironed out Claudio Villar, a Spaniard, in 29 seconds flat.”
"Arturo Godoy and Tami Mauriello rejected guarantees to square off with Ray at Madison square Garden, Lee Oma the Violent One's share of the swag in addition to his own. Joe Baksi and Lou Nova refused. Melio Bettina will have nothing to do with the Hastings Hammerer. Jimmy Bivins turned down the chance to march front and center with him in Los Angeles, where the terror recorded 19 knockouts in a row. The current Joe Walcott will have no truck with him in Baltimore... Currently he is drawing and at Miami's Negro ball yard, Dorsey Park, while putting the slug on such as Dan Merritt and Al Patterson, the latter a slatty character out of Pittsburgh. "It's better than wrestlingalligators and fighting nine guys at once," beams Violent Ray."
-The Coshocton Tribune, March 8, 1946


In my opinion, Ray's exceptional record during his peak years and wins over two champions-to-be who were at or near their own peaks distinguish him as one of the best contenders in the history of the division never to win the title. He certainly has some impressive knockout numbers during those years at well; 50 wins in a row with 44 knockouts during 1944-1947, and a run of 17 consecutive knockouts in a year, all but one within five rounds, going into his 1946 clash with Walcott. If you're looking for his best knockouts, I'd say the Lee Savold fight ranks up there. Reportedly, Ray knocked Savold through the ropes early in the second round, before Savold climbed up at "six," only for Ray to deposit him flat on his face for the full count seconds later with a short right- and Savold hadn't been stopped in his last 40 fights and five years of fighting beforehand, either.

 

Ray gave Charles his only loss in his prime 1946-1950. That means a lot. Charles is one of the greatest fighters who ever lived

And you’re wrong, Ray debuted in 1933 according to boxrec.[/QUOTE]
Read Wikipaedia he was fighting in his early teens! Charles is one of the greatest fighters who ever lived but he wasn't a great heavyweight ,imo.

 

I’ve seen enough of mcvey on film to know he stands zero chance against Charles or Walcott

 

Read Wikipaedia he was fighting in his early teens! Charles is one of the greatest fighters who ever lived but he wasn't a great heavyweight ,imo.[/QUOTE]

Charles is a top 20 heavyweight of all time, it’s a very meaningful win.

Until you provide a legitimate source ray debuted in 1926, it still stands his debut was 1933

 

"Elmer (Violent) Ray has the extraordinary distinction of being the only man Joe Louis wouldn't even meet in an exhibition. Louis boxed Dan Merritt of Cleveland instead, and stood watching as Ray, a crowding weaver and bobber with the speed of a swiftmiddleweight, ironed out Claudio Villar, a Spaniard, in 29 seconds flat.”
"Arturo Godoy and Tami Mauriello rejected guarantees to square off with Ray at Madison square Garden, Lee Oma the Violent One's share of the swag in addition to his own. Joe Baksi and Lou Nova refused. Melio Bettina will have nothing to do with the Hastings Hammerer. Jimmy Bivins turned down the chance to march front and center with him in Los Angeles, where the terror recorded 19 knockouts in a row. The current Joe Walcott will have no truck with him in Baltimore...Currently he is drawing and at Miami's Negro ball yard, Dorsey Park, while putting the slug on such as Dan Merritt and Al Patterson, the latter a slatty character out of Pittsburgh. "It's better than wrestlingalligators and fighting nine guys at once," beams Violent Ray."
-The Coshocton Tribune, March 8, 1946

"None of the near-name heavies wants any part of Ray, who in a New Orleans battle royal knocked out nine opponents with one hand tied behind his back."

"...in doing so he made of Elmer Ray a modern Sam Langford. You remember the Boston Tar Baby. He was a guy heavyweight champion Jack Johnson dodged and dodged during the six years he held the title some three decades ago. Langford tried desperately to get a bout with the champ, but Johnson never would have a part of him. Louis is that way with Ray. It’s silly to say that Louis, the man who has made so many valiant defenses of the crown, is afraid of Elmer. But it is a fact that he won’t fight the burley puncher from Hastings, Florida."
-Middlesboro Daily News, July 26, 1947

 

Ray Thompson I


This was a No Contest, resulting from a low blow by Thompson that incapacitated Ray in round six of their match. Looking through accounts of the match, it seems that Ray was apparently creaming Thompson before the NC and that Thompson actually threw two hard, flagrant low blows, one in the second and one in the sixth, possibly to bail himself out of trouble. The Modesto Bee account, August 10th, 1943, reads, "Turkey Thompson still wore his crown today after a match with a tough Floridian named Elmer Ray, who punched his better known opponent around the ring for six rounds only to have Referee Lee Ramage atop the bout with no decision after Ray had been fouled twice,"and according to the Fresno Bee Republican, "Ray had won all five rounds and was out in front in the sixth when he was hurt by a low blow and Ramage stopped the bout."

Walcott Ray I

This one was a razor-thin split decision for Ray. While this match was very close, from the accounts I've seen of it, there seems to be pretty widespread agreement that Ray did deserve the slim nod. According to Sid Roth, "the Violent One, whom they had kept out of lucrative Madison Square Garden for so long, had a clear winning edge." The New York Times account had it 6-4 for Ray, and every account I've come across has either indicated Ray had a slight edge or just called the match "close" or "closer-than-the-buttons-on-your-vest" or somesuch.


Walcott Charles I


The United Press scorecard had it 5-4-1 for Ray, while the Associated Press card scored the match 5-4-1 for Charles. Here is the description from the Middlesboro Daily News account: "The gallery gods went into ranting hysterics last night when the burly negro who once wrestled alligators for a living smashed the myth which was Ezzard Charles. The boxing bigwigs, who had been grooming Charles for a fight with Joe Louis, laughed. Once more they had given Joe Louis, the heavyweight champion, an excuse to dodge the violent one. For from 10 rows back it looked like Charles all the way. He danced and jabbed and landed a lot on Ray's bobbing pate and Elmer's busy elbows. But inside 10 rows you could see the devastation wrought by Ray's jarring hooks, blasts which raised the sheaf of Ezzard's cheek. “No holding,” was the continual admonition of referee Eddie Joseph. But Ezzard, of the winged retreating feet, had to hold for his life, and in doing so he made of Elmer Ray a modern Sam Langford."
According to the Nevada State Journal, "Ezzard had clicked off 15 straight victories since he received his discharge from the army 18 months ago, including nine knockouts, but he was unable to overcome his heavier and more experienced opponent, and he was unable to score a single knock-down against rugged Ray, who kept marching in, bobbing and weaving and throwing hooks to body and head. Although Ray admits to 31, which would make him at least five years older than his opponent, it was Ray who finished stronger in the 10th round and thereby apparently wrapped up the bout by a close