Elmer Ray vs...

He picked up manager/promoter Tommy O'Loughlin in mid-1940. Here's a snippet on O'Loughlin from the Traverse City Eagle, March 11th, 1946:
"Minneapolis Tommy O'Loughlin, manager of heavyweight Elmer (Violent) Ray, charged today that his boy wasn't given a "break" in New York because the Florida Negro “punches hard enough to shatter Mike Jacobs' monopoly at maul.” A dapper, black-haired Irishman, Minneapolis Tommy is trying to talk his way into a shot at any of the so-called "name" heavyweights. If it works, he is certain that the explosive punches of the Violent One will force Uncle Mike to match the re-christened Elmer with the winner of the Louis-Conn bout this summer...
...The handsome, fast-talking manager believes devoutly that if the one-time battle royal boy ever was given an opening he would march right through the ranks, including Louis.
All of which is a testimonial to O'Loughlin's managerial skill, for Ray was a gymnasium punching bag when Tommy picked him up. "I saw he could punch,” he said. "I'm partial to punchers, and Ray is one of the best ever." Elmer proved that a long time ago, in Florida's illegal Battle Royals where 10 men are put in the ring and the winner takes all."

 

Good stuff!Ray ko'd a lot of guys but not too many top notchers.

 

Your point I believe is that Ray knocks McVey out!I say he doesn't ,very few managed that trick and Ray's stoppage wins over durable class men is very small.

 

If Rex Layne had never fought them, would you give him much of a chance based on footage.

 

Your point about his knockout percentage going down against top competition is a valid one, although I have posted articles stating he was seriously avoided by a lot of white contenders during that period.

 

I may concede that McVea could go the distance, but I do think ray beats him both at their best.

 

Knockout % is more a function of your level of opposition, than your credentials as a knockout artist.

You can get any world class fighter a high KO%, by matching them against weak opposition.

A fighter like Joe Louis, who retains his KO% against elite opposition, is as rare as a hens tooth.

Even the Louis of the Walcott fights would have almost certainly handed Ray his head!

 

Well now your selling ray a bit short here. He could really hit. He left a very durable Lee Savold out cold in 2 rounds. Marciano hammered away at an ancient Savold for 6 rounds and couldn’t even floor him. RING magazine dubbed ray number 44 in their top 100 punchers of all time list which shows just how highly boxing minds thought of his power

I favor Louis by knockout, but ray was a very dangerous worthy opponent, far more so than Tami Mauriello!

 

Was he though?

If you look at Rumsfeld's analysis, Mauriello was one of the real standouts, as a contender!

Was he perhaps an Elmer Ray who got forgotten because Louis annihilated him?

 

No. He had a spotty record, he lost often. He was far from dominating in his prime. Decent contender in a weak era, but not one of the heavyweight contenders of all time to never win a world title like Ray was.


Elmer ray beat prime Charles and Prime Walcott. Mauriello could never replicate that on his best day . He lost to light heavyweight Gus Lesnevich 4 times! He lost to men who refused to get in the ring with Ray (Baksi, Oma)

 

He might just have a better claim than Ray!

He fought a lot more strong contenders, and still maintained his standing in the decade!

Who were Walcott and Charles before they won the title?

Two promising contenders, but nothing more!

The rest of Ray's resume, was a sea of weakness!

You cannot factor in future events in these analyses!

What had Ray done, based on what happened in the known past, to suggest that he was a better contender than Tami?

 

He lost to lhvy Lesnevich when he was a lhvy himself didnt he?Ray was a full fledged heavy when Lewis stopped him.

 

Mauriello weighed 197 and 201 when he lost to lesnevhich in 1947

Sounds like a fully fledged heavyweight to me

 

This is chokelab type logic, but I’ll bite.

Walcott and Charles were rated number 1 and 2 in the world when Ray beat them

Also Tami Mauriello ducked a Madison Square Garden showdown with Ray

.”
"Tami Mauriello rejected guarantees to square off with Ray at Madison square Garden.”
-The Coshocton Tribune, March 8, 1946

You absolutely can factor in future events in this head to head mythological analysis because the question is who was the better heavyweight?


What had ray done? Defeated Charles and Walcott to earn a number 1 rating in the world...went on a 74-3 run from 1941-1948. Ducked by Tami Mauriello himself

 

In fairness to Tami, he was only 17 when he lost a split decision to Lesnevich for the light-heavy title in 1941, and only 18 for the rematch. His losses to Bivins were at 18 and 19. After he turned 20 he had lost only to Lee Oma, whom he defeated 2 of 3, and Joe Baksi. All the early losses to Billy Soose, Lesnevich, and Bivins were close fights.

It is certainly understandable why he was rated highly going into the Louis fight.

After that, Mauriello fell apart and was out of boxing at 26.

Mauriello seems to have been a boxing prodigy who never fulfilled his early promise.