Emile Griffith - setting the record straight on his close fights

Emile Griffith was a steady fighter, always in great shape, and no easy opponent for anybody...An event occured that I will never forget...In 1962, I was at the Concord Hotel, on a weekend vacation...Emile Griffith was training there for his bout with Benny Paret,March 25 MSG, about a week or so before...At a cocktail party for the guests of the hotel,one evening ,Griffith showed up alone...I and some other guys surrounded Emile, dressed in a polo shirt, with shoulders six feet wide, it seemed..One guy asked Griffith about a remark Benny Paret said, questioning Griffith's manhood in Spanish..Emile appeared angry and told us ,inaffect that " I'll murder Paret", when we fight next week.. Well as we all know , sadly that's what happened March 24,1962, when Griffith kod Paret in the 12th round...Referee, Ruby Goldstein should have stopped the bout, sooner as Paret was helpless on the ropes, for too long a time...I always think about Emile's remarks to us a week before that tragic fight, so long ago.....

 

Emile Griffith was to me..to be appreciated like fine jazz or classical music..an acquired taste to be sure...but worth studying for purposes of observing a fine mechanic at work.

 

I just got a heap of Griffith fights and thought I'd bring up this thread and give my take on his close fights.

Interestingly, me and you differ quite starkly in the scoring of this bout.

Griffith: 1,2,4,7,8,9,13,14
Tiger: 3,6,10,11,12,15 KD'd 9
Total: 144-141 Griffith (8-6-1)

Round 5 missing so I scored it even.

In the first few rounds Griffith started off well behind his jab and lateral movement, controlling the range with both things and throwing the occasional feint to keep Tiger off balance. This continued till the third when i felt Tiger began to time Griffith better and land punches as Griffith stepped in.

Griffith, admirably, regained control in the fourth, as I felt he changed his rhythm by throwing a lot more feints and generally controlling the range better because of this. He also began to mix up his offence as he would occasionally lead with a power punch just to catch Tiger unaware.

The fight heated up in the sixth as, IMO, Griffith looked to rest by getting off the, mentally wearing, backfoot and hang inside for a while. Which he did. Although the pace was hotter, Griffith was getting a rest as he was not under duress on the backfoot. Although he allowed Tiger to win the round as he got the better of the inside fighting although Griffith's speed kept it close.

In the seventh Griffith went back on the boxing gameplan and did very well IMO. His movement seemed to offset Tiger and Griffith was able to get off first and keep Tiger at bay. One thing I think Griffith took advantage of well is that Tiger was never really brilliant at cutting off the ring, he tended to apply a lot of pressure but it was straight ahead, and he would wait for mistakes from his opponent then counter. Griffith was out manoeuvring Tiger and getting off first making countering very hard and Tiger was unable to get inside and bang away due to not cutting off the ring. The eight and ninth followed this pattern and in the ninth Griffith walked Tiger on to a lovely right hand-left hook combination and briefly made him touch down.

Oddly, at the start of the tenth Griffith began to fall short with his punches and did not get his range until later in the round. Tiger capitalised on this and timed some very nice counter-punches and generally did very well in this round. The eleventh I felt was much like the sixth, where Griffith wanted a rest from the backfoot and fell inside, although I think Tiger made it easy for Griffith to fall in this trap by upping his ante a bit in this round. It was a close round again but generally the bigger and stronger Tiger was getting the better on the inside, although again Griffith's speed kept it close. The twelfth was similar although Tiger's timing seemed off early on the outside, but Griffith's workrate dropped and he did not seem to capitalise on this mistake.

The thirteenth was very close as Griffith started well with his outside boxing and smothered Tiger on the inside but half way through the round began to get suckered into exchanging with Tiger. It was very close as Tiger was the stronger and harder hitting fighter but Griffith was faster and getting off more shots. A round very much scored on what you liked better. The fourteenth was close also as Griffith really dispensed with his jab and began to come in with fast combo's but Tiger was timing his jab very well and was able to land on Griffith as he came in to range to sharp shoot. Although I gave this round to Griffith it could have went either way.

Griffith began the last round boxing superbly but Tiger forced his way inside in the last minute and kept Griffith pinned to the ropes and banged away to just edge out the final round.

Very very good and interesting fight.

 

Great take on the fight GP..a fight that's always fascinated me for some reason.

 

Superb fight, been thinking about it all day. I'll just do the fights in order that S_S watched them and hopefully get his revised take on them and maybe abit of debate going.

 

Although this fight was not one that the thread was made for, just because this thread is a sort of overview of Griffith's career, I thought I would balance things out and include his title winning performance against Benny Paret in their first meeting.

Although it was very close, it had a conclusive ending. I think labelling this fight a 'bore-fest' is slightly unfair, I for one, really enjoyed it and thought it was a hard fought interesting fight.

It was a hard fight to scrutinise as Griffith was the much more technically disciplined fighter and this reaped rewards on the outside as his more rigid approach allowed him to tag the more relaxed Paret down the pipe with jabs but also avoid returning jabs from Paret. Also Griffith's combinations from long range were very effective, although they were rarely used. Paret on the other hand used his speed and looser style on the inside where he could rattle off flurries but when pushed back by the stronger Griffith he tended to struggle to find the room to get these flurries off.

Griffith started out the bout boxing but Paret managed to get in mid range and flurry and take the first two rounds with his superior workrate and control of the distance and temp of the fight. Griffith in the third began to push Paret back inside and minimise the room for his flurries but allowing himself to land hard hooks and uppercuts to the body, Griffith also tied Paret up with one hand, and this seemed to really discourage Paret from throwing. This was the case till about the sixth round, when near the end of the round Paret landed a big right that seemed to hurt Griffith momentarily and Griffith slightly took his foot off the gas and began to spoil a bit more in the proceeding round. This allowed Paret to put his punches together in the eight and back up the younger Griffith, thus earning him the round.

Griffith took to movement in the ninth to regain initiative and did so with a nice snappy jab and good angles. He picked his shots well for hard combinations and generally looked in full control, although by the half way mark Paret managed to get into mid-range and began flurrying to make it a close round. The best round of the fight followed this as Paret for the first time in the fight took to taking the fight on the outside as he used his speed to sharp-shoot Griffith from long range. He managed to get Griffith's respect early with an overhand right and Griffith became cautious, falling into the counter-punchers trap as he was hesitant with his shots. Paret landed some hard shots but right near the end of the round Griffith badly hurt Paret and almost had him out if not for the bell.

The eleventh was almost exclusively fought inside as Griffith was the aggressor and landed some hard shots to take the round. The twelfth was similar but it was Paret being the slightly more aggressive but I felt Griffith won it by way of a few hard straight rights that he landed on the advancing Paret.

So to the finish. It was fought inside until about a minute in Griffith exploded out of a clinch with an explosive left hook, demonstrating power not seen before in the bout, and really badly wobbling Paret. Griffith capitalising threw a couple more of these booming hooks and dropped Paret for the count and took the title.

It has to be remembered this was Griffith's first time over 10 rounds and in the later stages, there was a great case to be made that it was him that dominated, and the fact he finished the fight in the thirteenth attests to that. It also showcases the varied skill set he had, although he might not have used the best tactics he showed off most things in his arsenal.

Griffith:3,4,5,6,7,9,11,12
Paret: 1,2,8,10 KD'd 13
Total: 116-112 Griffith (8-4)

 

He fought a weight-drained Griffith one time, which he won lop-sidedly.

 

...griffith is the only fighter i've ever seen who could get a split decision shadow boxing.....

 

OK, we disagree slightly again!

I thought Paret was better in this fight as he looked to fight from long-range and mid-range rather than just exclusively mid-range. Griffith did what he had to do in boring inside and making it 'ugly' so to speak but he used his strength and harder punching to good effect IMO.

Paret started the bout positively from long-range with fast two handed flurries and some lovely counter-punches. My version of the fight then missed out rounds two through four and went straight to round five.

I thought Paret out-worked Griffith on the inside here, but Griffith landed the harder body shots. Griffith improved in the sixth as Paret began to get off first at long range but Griffith bored inside and banged to body and head. He upped the workrate and really worked over Paret. In the seventh Paret was able to keep Griffith away by getting off first on the outside and took the round. The eight was back to Griffith as he forced Paret back to the ropes and banged away with both hands. In the ninth and tenth Griffith got off first from the outside and then fell inside with the hard punches, especially the right uppercut. In the eleventh and twelfth Griffith again stayed inside but began to counter Paret's flurries with hard left hook counters that stopped Paret in his tracks.

Paret did good again in the thirteenth with getting in mid-range and unleashing those dazzling volleys of punches and then tied up Griffith when they got very close, neutralising Griffith's work there. In the fourteenth Griffith edged the round by getting in the harder punches in a close inside battle and in the last I thought Paret edged it by forcing the fight and outworking Griffith in the inside although it was very close.

It was a good fight with lots of good inside work, which makes it very hard to score.

Griffith: 6,8,9,10,11,12,14
Paret: 1,5,7,13,15
Total: 145-143 Griffith (7-5-3)

Rounds 2,3,4 were missing and therefore scored even.

 

Just to round off the Paret-Griffith rivalry I watched the third bout.

Now, Paret was one of the gamest fighters I have ever seen, he put everything into that fight and just refused to be beaten. I, as a fan, have to pay respect to Paret for him paying the ultimate sacrifice. My way of paying respect is to watch the bout.

RIP Benny 'Kid' Paret

This bout is one of the very best of all time, however the ending, unfortunately, dampens it.

The bout starts as it means to go on. Both men come out with a furious pace on their minds and get down to work. Griffith looks entirely focussed and in the exchanges his harder punching gives him the edge as he consistently stuns Paret in the first two rounds. Paret is the busier man but can't contain the harder shots of Griffith. The third is similar but Paret also decides to focus on hard punches but Griffith manages to pin him to the ropes and barricades him there with a stream of incessant punches.

Paret wins the fourth as in the brutal exchanges he is able to pick his shots better. This is some of the best trading I have seen and Paret feels the toll of it as he tires late in the round and Griffith comes back and hammers Paret, who courageously battles back.

In the fifth Griffith makes room to launch explosive combinations from long range and does superbly and as a result badly stuns Paret, but Paret gamely fires back even when hurt and sees out the round. The sixth was a small turning point as Paret finally began to out-fight Griffith on the inside with his super-fast combinations and then Paret begins to out box Griffith with a lovely jab then slips inside fires the combos then turns and changes angle. It was superb stuff. A huge right hand badly dropped Griffith, who was gone, but managed to get up at '8' and the bell saved him from further punishment.

Griffith having been done, begins to box in the seventh and makes good use of his jab and keeps away from the advancing Paret, with a bout a minute left in the round Griffith badly staggers Paret and pours it on but Paret, again, and unbelievably fights back and stuns Griffith! Both men have to take a rest round in the eighth and Griffith nicks it by virtue of a couple of straight rights he landed early in the round.

Paret is the one who resumes the action in the ninth as he gets behind the jab and falls inside with those rattling combinations to comprehensibly take the round. The tenth is a complete turn a round and Griffith badly hurts Paret with hard combinations from long range for most of the round, but Paret is still fighting back with everything and Griffith just cant seem to put him away. This tenth round makes Paret slower in the next round as slowly he loses energy, Griffith produces some good boxing and turns on an angle to catch Paret with a hard left hook, a few time.

Paret comes out for the twelfth looking quite tired and really devoid of energy. Griffith does not seem to notice this till he lands a straight right that stuns Paret and then pounces on him, trapping him to the ropes. You guy's know the rest.

I seriously can not relate how much respect I have for Paret, that was beyond bravery that he showed.

Griffith: 1,2,3,5,7,8,10,11 KD'd 6
Paret: 4,6,9
Total: 106-102 Griffith (8-3)

 

I seen the Archer fight the same way. I think Joey deserved the nod and Joey vs Nino would have been a excellent match-up, Nino could box and punch but Archer was the boxer but had a strong chin and was a tough guy boxer. Joey pulled out wins over Carter and Tiger and I feel Griffith in fight 1 because of his skill and mental strength. Archer was also robbed vs Don Fulmer

 

I had it scored almost the same, what caught my eye in this bout was Emile, slowed down here from his prime, was able to tag Monzon with right hand leads. He didn't just throw them out there but watched for the openings and repeated catching Carlos with it throughout the bout. I can only imagine that Robinsons faster and harder lead rights would have caught Monzon also.

 

I had it slightly closer than you, I seen that it could have went either way or a draw, although I marginally favoured Archer, not a terrible decision IMO.

I had Archer taking the first three rounds with his sharp left jabbing, which was almost incessant. His left hand was in over time as he hooked off it also using superb lateral movement.

Th next three I gave to Griffith as Griffith was able to get in and out with harder combo's as Griffith put his punches together and got inside. Archer threw back furiously but I liked Griffith's harder shots.

Seven and eight went to Archer as Archer kept the range superbly with his left jab and slipped inside with sharp left hooks, this really confused Griffith and kept him off balance and guessing what Archer was going to do next. By being confused Griffith resorted to mauling in the ninth and made it ugly, completely breaking Archer's rhythm and nicked the round because of his aggression.

In the tenth Archer re-established his range and began jabbing and getting angles as he got off first with his shots. Griffith couldn't get going because of it. In the eleventh Griffith began to pressure traditionally behind his jab and cut the ring off well and falling inside with hard shots. Impressive stuff by Griffith.

In the twelfth Archer finally got the better of the trades as he kept the range with the jab and teed off with his combinations from the jab. Griffith began to use his speed but Archer landed the better blows in the exchanges. In the thirteenth Griffith jabbed himself into range and banged away with hard punches, Archer had some moments with his left hand but it was limited as Griffith swarmed him.

In the fourteenth Archer regained control with some superb movement and angle changes to land some heavy left jabs and 1-2's for the most dominant round of the fight. Griffith took an exciting last round as he initiated exchanges and landed the harder blows.

Superb tactical fight IMO.

Griffith: 4,5,6,9,11,13,15
Archer: 1,2,3,7,8,10,12,14
Total: 143-142 Archer (8-7)

S_S you summed this fight up well. Although we disagreed on a few rounds.

I felt Griffith got off to a faster start this time taking the first two rounds with sharp and hard counter-punches although it was close as Archer looked to control behind his snappy left. Archer establishes the jab in the third and fourth as he moves expertly behind the jab, getting off first and putting combo's together. In the fifth Griffith does not do much but is pressuring effectively but he produces no end product, this is letting Archer win the round although Griffith is 'controlling' it. I also thought Archer edged the sixth, which was a mauling round, by virtue of getting off first.

In the seventh Griffith starts to work behind that jab getting inside with hard combinations, although as S_S says, he has to walk through Archer's shots. However, Griffith is really landing hard shots on the inside. Griffith keeps control in the eighth and ninth as he gets in and out with these hard combinations and pushes back the bigger man. The tenth is much closer as Archer begins to jab and move trying to keep Griffith off-balance as Griffith pours in with his combo's. In a very close round I favoured Archer's generalship.

In the eleventh Griffith dropped his left hand and began to bring his jab up and archer just can't deal with it. The hard jab of Griffith is letting him set up some superb combo's and Archer looks thoroughly bemused by Griffith's new jabbing style. In the twelfth Griffith goes straight at Archer with hard combinations and Archer is firing back with hard left jabs and using fast flurries in the exchanges, I narrowly favoured Griffith's harder shots. Archer gets back on his bike in the thirteenth and showcases some brilliant jabs and displays wonderful lateral movement but Griffith connects with a few brilliant punches, I narrowly favoured archer's boxing here.

In the last two rounds Archer puts together some nice jabs but Griffith puts together some lovely combinations, punctuated by superb left hooks, in some wonderfully fluid attacks to close the show.

A superb fight, I preferred the first fight marginally but this one has a lot more toe to toe action but is not as close and tactical as the first one.

Griffith: 1,2,7,8,9,11,12,14,15
Archer: 3,4,5,6,10,13
Total: 144-141 Griffith (9-6)

 

This quote jumped out at me. From watching these fights for myself its not so much a demythologisation of Griffith but rather appreciating some guys I wasn't too familiar with before. Griffith has not gone down in my estimations rather certain fighters have gone up.

I only have the second and third fights so I will post my cards.

Number II

In the early rounds Griffith is coming forward behind a jab and a left hook and Rodriguez is up on his toes bouncing around always ready to throw. He is making Griffith miss and countering with sharp rights before flurrying and either getting outside or holding. On the inside I felt Griffith landed the harder shots but on the outside it was all Rodriguez.

The ebb and flow changed mainly when Griffith could burst inside and land some hard punches or when Rodriguez altered his tactics to either stand and trade or get on his bike and show some lovely boxing but overall a superb technical/tactical fight. I loved it.

Griffith: 2,4,8,12,13
Rodriguez:1,3,5,6,7,9,10,11,14
Total: 145-141 Rodriguez (9-5-1)

Round 15 was missing so scored eve.

Fight III

This was much more action packed and exciting.

Early it followed much the same rhythm as the second fight but by the last third of the fight the bout was on fire with Griffith and Rodriguez trading furiously with Griffith landing the harder shots and Rodriguez flurrying. Both guys got stunned afew times apeice in a superb 5 rounds.

Griffith: 2,3,5,10,11
Rodriguez:1,4,6,7,8,9,12,13,14,15
Total: 145-140 Rodriguez (10-5)

I could see a closer score card but 8-7 is the closest I could see it as I felt rounds 9 and 13 were pretty close and nearly every round was competitive. Not one of the worst robberies I have seen but Rodriguez got the edge narrowly IMO.