How do you see these fights going. All 5x5 unified rules inside the Octagon. Igor Vovanchyn vs Stipe Miocic Ken Shamrock vs Daniel Cormier Frank Shamrock vs Michael Bisping Kazushi Sakuraba vs Woodley Royce Gracie vs Connor McGregor Here we have some of the very first men to be deemed greats inside the Octagon. Probably the greatest per weight class at the turn of the millennium. Putting Gracie at LW is controversial, i know, but with a 24 hour weigh in and a nutritionist he might be able to make it, even if he fails to make weight though, McGregor still agrees to go ahead with the fight in this scenario. I recently got into MMA and i have been watching all these early men in every fight i can get my hands on. Unlike boxing we have a plethora of footage for the pioneers and can gauge their strengths and weaknesses without having to rely on myth and legend. I must admit i do have a slight bias for BJJ because it's my sport currently and i don't like the way scoring favours the wrestlers but that's just life. Anyways for my money i think the following results are the most likely Gracie Sub McGregor Sakuraba Dec Woodley Shamrock Dec Bisping Cormier Dec Shamrock Miocic KO Vovanchyn Anyone have any thoughts, input or analysis on these? Does anyone really care for cross era matchups?
I have to admit I haven't watched the very latest round of UFC stuff, so I'm a bit patchy on Woodley and Miocic. I shouldn't be allowed to give an opinion on Bisping because I never liked him, but I reckon Shamrock would take him too. Frank seemed very complete and I think he would own him on the ground. I'm not totally convinced by Royce Gracie. The reason being is that BJJ is the atom bomb against guys that don't train, but once a guy is world level and cross trains everything like Conor, he should theoretically not only be able to at least defend the submission on the ground but also prevent it from going there in the first place. I think McGregor would pull out the win there.
The thing is, with BJJ, it's such a dynamic sport that new moves and submissions are being learnt on a monthly basis so defending against BJJ as a style isn't possible really. At best it can be nullified with wrestling and relying on the judges to score wrestler over BJJ on the ground. Nate Diaz beat McGregor by being the bigger man and choking out a fatigued McGregor, that's pretty much exactly how I see the Gracie fight going were it to be made. Gracie will never ever be known as a striker but his leg kicks were dangerous and should make anyone his own size think twice before attempting to mow him down. His takedown approach differed fight to fight, stuffing a double leg is one thing, but a leg trip from the clinch isn't as easy to defend against especially in a cage. Unless Connor bombs him out i don't see Gracie failing to take his back. Connor is a striker and as such his submission defence should be the best in his division, but Gracie was a master of the submission and defending against a bigger BJJ man is gonna be very difficult imo.
Agree with most of these. But Bisping/Shamrock is one that could really go either way. Gut is that Shamrock takes it as well, but I wouldn't rule out a close win for Bisping in a 5 round fight.
For all the hate Bisping gets, he is a world class fighter and if he manages to score a victory over Jacare and Souza he'll go down as a great. His plan of beating all the old legends looks good on paper but it's beating prime contenders which he needs to do. I mean what's next? Defence against Belfort because he's a big name and has beaten him? He says Romero is definitely next so I just hope it's the case.
I think he's already a top 5 ATG MW based on his longevity, consistency and resume. He's flawed but great at what he does all the same.
He's one of the best "anti wrestlers" I've seen. I love the rock paper scissors element of MMA ATM due to the scoring. A striker with good TDD should beat a wrestler A strong wrestler should beat a BJJ fighter A BJJ fighter should beat a striker. Obviously it's a bit of an over simplification but the scoring system atm means that way. I'm biased towards BJJ fighting style because i think its a thing of beauty. But scoring favours the man on top and usually that's the wrestler, lately it favours striking even more which is good because it makes for more interesting and exciting fights. I think Bisping has a better chance against Romero than Jacare due to styles. If he can stuff the take down attempts and stay away from those knees he has a very realistic chance against Souza. Beating Jacare is not something I see him doing. Not sure where i rate him, haven't watched enough MMA yet, I'm only up to the year 2000 so far.
I'm terrible at picking MMA fights...but with that said, I'd pick the newer current era over anyone in the past generally...exceptions are Anderson and Fedor...they stand the test of time because they were exceptional...but generally the latest is the greatest with MMA...the sport is evolving quickly.
Shamrock vs Cormier I believe Ken shamrock would defeat Cormier if we are going with mid 90's shamrock.(Using SAME fighter comparisons) He was just strong and didnt play the striking game and focused goal was to get you to the ground and work you over or force you into a submission.i believe his sole skills of keeping opponents pinned and grounding them out could win here.going by old rules . New rules? Its im not sure ! Sakuraba vs Woodley I would take Sakuraba over Woodley,he defeatted far bigger stronger guys who had better striking and grappling skills.Hes a durable guy who could withstand strikes on the ground if it went there and always managed to survive and find a submission,or strike on the feet.He was very hard to finish on the ground and very fluid there. Gracie vs McGregor Royce Gracie would need to get McGregor on his back,does he? Im not so sure,he wasn't a great take down artist from shooting in, even if McGregor has been taken down it was to elite wrestlers. Its hard for me to pick Gracie over many fighters here,this isnt a submission chess match ,its a striker vs grappler one. Its a fight winnable for either but if you shut down basic BJJ and can avoid a take down ,Gracie then is at a major disadvantage. Gracie is not the best BJJ artist anymore and a well trained McGregor could arguably fight a cautious fight and avoid going to the ground all together and take a decision win landing on Gracie from the outside.Inside clinches wont favor Gracie here,because Connor is well schooled in that zone. Royce threw kicks coming forward and often left his hands down,would connors left hook find its mark? I believe Gracie has to rush in to get to Connor. Sakuraba clipped Royce with a hook in the second fight sending him down on his back in defense mode. I believe McGregor lands a much better one and easier bc he times his shots much better and uses kicks effectively. Royce is open to left or right hook and McGregor is a south paw,i believe just like Sakuraba he will be over matched at first and get hurt first here.the exception here is McGregor if he has Royce hurt wont play the ground game he will finish with strikes. McGregor by k.o any round Royce lunges in when he gets frustrated.
Picking Ken over Cormier is a bold move. Also first time Gracie and Sakuraba fought he could trolled the first 35 minutes or so of the match, he was quicker at striking and stronger in the clinch. Connors best chance is when Gracie does his wild lunging take down attempt I agree there, but if Gracie does tie him up, i think he'll get the leg trip on McGregor and finish him. Or he could time Gracie coming in as he did Aldo and end it immediately. It's hard saying how good Gracie is at BJJ, he put it on the map when it was style Vs style, he was old and retired by the time everyone had learnt to defend against its basics. I don't think anything at all can be taken from the Hughes defeat but i believe watching the first Sakuraba fight he is willing to be more patient with his BJJ, software the opponent with leg kicks and take them down when tired. Rickson deserves no mention as he achieved nothing in MMA, but Mir, Werdum and Jacare are 3 modern examples of BJJ being enough to win a championship. Are they better at rolling than Gracie? We'll never know. I said it earlier, BJJ is so dynamic and new moves and counters get learnt all the time, i have to assume a 7th dan black belt is equally capable of learning these moves in a fight situation. What does hold him back is his willingness to fight from the guard, purely because it isn't scored favourably in MMA.
No he couldnt because the second time Gracie fought without the Gi and was dropped shortly in the first rnd,had that been a smrt fighter or better striker than Sab Gracie is in big trouble.Hes WIDE open for those hook shots. Connor isnt going to play the submision game like Sakuraba. You dont need to do anything in MMA to get credentials ,clearly Rickson would wipe the floor with Royce ,no Gracie family member would ever dispute that,why do you think the UFC wanted Rickson insted of Royce and Renzo said he couldnt win either? It doesnt matter what degree belt you are when full contact is involved in the end its who executes their skills better and this will be with ALL techniques allowed.fighting and BJJ competition are two totally different things, this is why Royce would always be limited ,hes NOT a good striker despite what anyone says. Its not out of possibility Royce wins but i dont believe hes favored here if its the McGregor of now. Using Shamrock of 1994/1995 isnt shocking if you know how tough he was to fight then,Cormeir would have his hands full bc he would not worry about submissions and he was very quick THEN on the shoots.I see him over power Cormier. Nothing spectacular in most wins but very hard to beat if you cant match his strength.
I don't think he's as defensively open as you do. Sab didn't play the submission game with Gracie, I've just watched the full fight. He played the cardio game, he defended himself from submission attacks by using minimal effort whilst Gracie was trying to boss him in the clinch. Once Gracie slowed Sakuraba started landing punches and more importantly leg kicks. Sakuraba played the anti submission game if anything. Rickson is myth. Complete myth. Being 7th dan doesn't mean he'd win. What it means is he's got an excellent understanding of pressure points and leverage so would be able to adapt dynamically in situations. He isn't a good striker, he has dangerous leg kicks and decent defence, his skill is always going to be submission based. Remember the one recent loss McGregor suffered was to a BJJ man. Ken was very hard to fight as he was very strong, i just don't think he's as good as Frank.
This. Rickson never really proved himself against anybody elite. If he took out Bas Rutten (who was constantly calling him out) then I'd have to concede he was a very bad man. As it is, more smoke and mirrors and hype than anything else.
Luf. Do you consider Mir to be better than Big Nog as far as opposing his BJJ at HW is concerned? I'd have to give Prime Nog the edge.
I don't know mate, it's hard to say. Werdum, Rodrigo and Mir are the 3 stand outs i think. Rodrigo had a better chin but I'm not sure there's many better on the mat than Mir. Everything he did was based around getting a chokehold and he was very committed to his strategy.
