Erik Morales ranks amongst the top 3 mexican fighters of all time!

McGrain how many Manuel Ortiz fights have you seen?

His resume was quite questionable imo despite a long reign. I haven't seen enough of him to put him in top 15 at BW.

Aside from him and Saldivar I agree with your choices.

 

Even if more only think MAB won two rather than all three as I think, I've rarely come across the opinion that Morales won two. But I insist on their fights because I think despite Barrera being the superior fighter head to head Morales had the greater career and should rank higher. Barrera had the spottier career, while Morales sustained success longer, and into higher weights. Morales separated himself over Barrera by beating Zaragoza, McCullough, Jones, Espadas, Ayala, Chavez, Hernandez, Pac. Plus a lot of b-level wins like Acero-Sanchez. And heroic late losses against Pac, Diaz, and Maidana. You're making the wrong case if you significantly base Morales' greatness on the Barrera fights.

 

beat barrera twice? lol

 

Even ranking h2h?

 

it's all I judge on now, just makes life easier, like now all I need to do is watch some Ortiz and compare him to others to see if he makes my cut.

Also boxing legitimate defences is not the best of criteria imo Pascual Perez boxed **** loads against no deserving opposition.

 

The God of war !!!!

 

Beat Barrera twice and the third fight was a draw

 

Yeah look how many defences Perez technically has mate, some against debutant fighters and what not.

Yeah I agree with the point about the Louis comparison totally. Might watch more of him .

Any system is riddled with flaws, I think it's just important to have a system you're comfortable with. Take this very debate right now I have 2 paths 1) research Ortiz's career, the career of his opposition, the legitimacy of his title claim, the general standing of him by his peers, the news clippings during his era and then compare it to other BW and Mexican fighters. 2) watch two or three of his fights.

I know generally speaking, ATG is based on resume and accomplishment, but there are those who rank H2H and it's much easier to do and much more fun to do.

Ultimately, the worst case scenario is someone telling me that by omitting a certain fighter they would rather eat a bucket of their own **** and after surviving that ordeal today I think I can survive anything :good

Although from my point if view, how do you view Ortiz as a fighter?

 

No one will complain if you say he is the GOAT Mexican :bbb

Sanchez had curly hair & fast twitch muscles, which makes him cluster with Caribbean Americans rather than Mexicans :think

JCC was a KING-WBC race horse, he got the benefit of being marketed as the legend

Morales Poisoned Junior Jones & ate Pacman, something MAB failed to do

Lopez was great, but Alvarez Minimized his Napoleonic ambitions outside the Minimum & Mini flyweight weight divisions

JMM a better counter puncher, but other than having Pacman circuit codes he failed vs Indonesian legend Chris John & other ATGs

Zarate looked impressive vs Zamora & guys who couldn't take that right hand, his dependence on the right hand, meant his opponents had to always be Sub-Feather

Olivares beat every man he faced at Bantamweight, but his chin didn't work at ATG level :roll:

No reason to assume Featherweight ATG Saldivar would have been able to evade Morales accurate long Right, Saldivar was too short

Canto the smoothest Mexican of all but lacked the power to keep guys off him when he needed a breather, Whitaker put down Hurtado & DLH

 

Chris Arreola is #1... buffet eater.

 

I'm deffo gonna watch all available footage of him then.

Dixon is hard to say tbh. Some guys from thay era transcend, does he? I honestly don't know.