ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

I tend to go from very sarcastic to very serious, to half joking.
My posts often don't have any scructure.
I go from jokes to serious in a matter of a single word.
Most posts in the lounge is just trolling/ making jokes

But my dislike for Muhammad Ali is genuine.

 

That’s one of the politest posts I’ve ever seen! I’ll try to reciprocate. I’ve written a lot about these topics already in this thread, but I’ll try to sum it up. :good

What you have to understand first is that these guys aren’t fighters in the sense we are familiar with in the west, where recreational interest accounts for most guys first walking into a fight gym. In Thailand most are “pushed” into it very young , maybe 8 (although I’ve seen much younger) by family who need a bit of extra income or who can’t a afford to raise their kids alone. The sport solely exists for the gamblers and these guys are viewed purely as commodities and are “owned” by their gym’s owners and handlers. They are usually purchased at a young age from small provincial gyms, brought to their new gym usually in Bangkok where they will live eat and breathe only Muay Thai until they leave in many cases maybe over a decade after they arrived. The manner in which they leave the gym largely depends on how they fight. Many leave injured, many get released after losing streaks having become a financial liability, but most get released after having repeatedly gone to war month in month out for years until finally they just have nothing left to give and are thrown on the scrap heap.:-(

The majority of fighters are done by time they’re 22-25, having had anywhere from 100 to 300 pro fights. Many guys end up with nothing (remember there is a 50-50 split with the gym), maybe a little noodle stand on the street or a second rate karaoke bar on some back soi somewhere and they’re the semi lucky ones. Most however, become taxi drivers, go home and become farmers or gunmen in illegal casinos where a lot can wind up dead. Options are limited for a normal Thais let alone a man that’s been bred only to kick ass since he was 8! One gym I trained at did try to help by taking a % of the fighters purse and putting it in a savings account for the fighter, but I dread to think how that turned out when the gym struck hard times. The luckier ones manage to get out of the country and train abroad, which isn’t easy or secure financially, not to mention Thais aren’t great long term travellers they tend to miss home too much. The very select few of maybe only 4 fighters Somluck, Samart, Khoasai and now possibly Buakaw get regular TV work.

The exception to the above trend are the guys like Buakaw, Jomhod, Khem, Singmanee etc who have managed to get a bit more longevity out of their careers as they wind up about 70 kilos which is just right for the international MT and K-1 scene which pays well and is a much easier day at the office compared to their heydays back in Thailand in lower weight divisions when they were younger. By time these guys are fighting abroad in the west they are past their primes, but still manage to dominate.

In terms of losses on the record well, they do matter but only really from a financial point, there is little room for sentimental favourites in the cattle market of the Thai fight scene. Most fighters tend to fight for the same promoters so if they lose their payday goes down the next time and if they keep losing they probably get bumped down to a lesser stadium and so on until the gym then dumps them. Thais want to see 5 rounds of “beautiful” boxing or to translate 5 rounds of backward and forward frenetic action that allows gamblers & bookies to make lot of money, so being a KO artist can also hurt your chances of advancement up the ladder, remember it’s all about the gambling and who wants to bet against a KO specialist, where’s the thrill in that! If you box bravely and make it close people like that, but on the whole you gotta win, there’s just way too much competition out there for people to remember you unless you’re great! And if your great you’ll probably wind up fighting the same other greats of the time repeatedly, it’s not uncommon for guys to sometimes meet upwards of 6 times! :shock:

There’s loads more on this topic spread out in this thread, but here’s alink where we talk about it more in depth:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378058&page=47

 

Short answer, it’s the best combat sport to crossover from. All the things that boxers spend years developing M

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gime and have so many fights by time they are in their early twenties. When they turn over they are battled hardened veterans still young in years 20- 25. Most of the important basic skills they need are already in place; supreme S&C, ring smarts, the ability to read a fight, staying calm under fire and a mature fight mentality are already there. These are important skills that take years to build up and learn. The only problem for the veteran Muay Thai fighter with powerful hands is to adapt his wealth of experience to learning new movements, patterns, combos and techniques, which is tougher than it sounds.

Again this is something we’ve spoken about a lot alreadyin this thread and one of Flea’s a major loves Thai MT converts to Boxing.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378058&page=14

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378058&page=29

Fair enough, we just get alot of nutjobs in here from the main looking for agro they have little respect or interest for anything other than Boxing, so when you get a post questioning the records of the world's most battle hardened warriors, you wonder where there coming from....

 

This post made me sad:verysad

 

Yeah, sometimes makes the fighter squared up but usually technically tidy.

Or it goes the other way and they're awkward beasts. A few Ali impersonators as well, Chitalada, Sukhothai.

Check out Samart Payakaroon to see a guy who is neither.

 

Excellent post, thanks so much. You've really enlightened me.

:happy

 

This is the best thread i've seen on ESB.:good

 

:good I enjoy it too, I have learned **** loads from this thread.

 

I've wasted hours looking up fighters, that i have learnt about from this epic thread.:thumbsup

 

Glad people are reading it and enjoying it! :good

It's an honest thread where we all post without agenda and chip in bits & bobs that've helped create this juggernaut of a thread.

Sounds like a perfect and valuable use of time to me!

 

Is there a thread for best thai fighters to cross over to boxing? Or at least find the most success?

 

Yeah, me, what d'ya wanna' know? :good

 

Yeah, in this thread. In the above post where I post about moving over to boxing click on the second link then go down to the middle and you'll find some epic posts about Thai western boxers by Fleaman. Flea's knowledge on the top Thai converts to boxing is second to none.

For your own research all Thai fight rivers start with GOAT Thai warrior Samart Payakaroon. All hail the king :bowdown

In MT he was a 4 weight Lumpinee champ as well as in boxing a WBC junior featherweight champ!

 

And beaten by Australia's own Jeff Fenech - don't forget that.

Sorry mate - Aussie pride and I know Jeff, had to drop that one in. :thumbsup

 

Yeah, Pernell Whittaker-levels of natural reflexive defence and crushing power.

Greatest Nak Muay of all time.

Apidej Sit Hirun is one of the lauded 'old school' MT legends and, although his boxrec record is likely incomplete, he didn't convert over too well. Things could've turned out very different if he bed beaten Kim at the time he fought him though.

Saensak Muangsurin, as we've discussed many times in this thread, is a peculiar case. He had an iron chin and two bags on gravel at the end of his arms, as well as limitless stamina. But he didn't even make any adjustments Boran may be able to tell you more about his stance but he's not a technician at all

Two ranked contenders in his first two fights that he decimates (check out Muangsurin KO1 Barro on YouTube) and takes the WBC title in his 3rd fight. That was in '77, and even with all the belts nowadays that's never been equalled as the quickest route to a World title. He was just a BEAST his power would be comparable to a ten stone Foreman IMO.

I'm on iPhone: Boran post your vid'