ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division - P4P Survey Updated in October 2011

What the f-...

 

I just looked at the first two names on the silly (but "politically correct") list and chucked it. Russians and eastern Europeans and also black Africans and Cuban (expats) weren't even allowed to compete back then, Neither of them ever faced one. They weren't real "world champions". Now they are competing and the results are obvious. The amazing Doctor Klitschko brothers are the two greatest heavyweights of all time period.

 

You haven't seen their case?

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What argument does LaMotta have to be an all-time top 10 MW? He'd be lucky to crack the top 20. Outside of one win against Robinson, what might possibly justify a top 10 spot?

I get the feeling that if they made a movie about Fritzie Zivic, you'd think it's ridiculous that he didn't make the top 10 at WW too.

 

Gee, I dunno. Wins over Marcel Cerdan, Jose Basora, Holman Williams, Fritzie Zivic, Tommy Yarosz, Bert Lytell, Robert Villemain, Laurent Dauthuille, George "Sugar" Costner, Bob Satterfield, etc.

I know, I know, it doesn't compare to Hopkins' wins over such Middleweight kingpins as Howard Eastman, William Joppy, Keith Holmes, Syd Vanderpool, and sweeping the trilogy against the almighty Robert Allen.

 

Savage.

 

The fights against villemain indicate he was a level above jake.

There's a decent argument that robinson and villemain always ranked above jake. I don't buy into it but am argument could be made none the less.

 

Perhaps he just matched up well with him? It's also quite possible the weight draining was already starting to take its toll on Jake's body. His fight weights were especially high leading up to the last fight with Robinson. LaMotta's achievements outside of those two fights are clearly superior, anyway, and Villemain was a better Middleweight than any Hopkins beat, surely.

 

Yeah bad style matchup definitely. Yeah I read he was a natural lhw who boiled down.

Maybe they are better, who knows? I agree that jake is underrated massively as a mw; but he isn't as great a mw as hopkins was imo. Transposing era's is something I put no stock in and it's beyond question that hopkins was better in his era than jake was in his.

But as a mw, jake should be atleast top 15 and certainly above walker, zale and apostoli.

 

But Jakes era was also a lot better than B-Hops.

 

So, what, you just assume every era is of the same level of quality as any other? If you're doing such extensive research on them (quite speedily for someone who's supposed to be putting so much time into it) surely you'd realise that's far from the case.

Has your research been relegated to researching rankings and paper accomplishments at the expense of watching actual film?

 

Wonjongkam placed eighth?!? atsch

 

Rather I don't assume one era's quality is significantly stronger such that it makes a difference. Ruling an era is ruling an era. It aint the only thing I rank on obviously, resume plays a huge part as does perceived h2h ability.

Well I started my hw thread how ever long ago I started it (no idea off the top of my head but I think it was 6 month or so ago). So I spend maybe a month on the major divisions and a week on the newer divisions. The speed I post the results up is just arbitary because I do my research on microsoft word and then copy-paste it.

Maybe a month is too speedy and not enough time for a major division, some divisions are harder than others and some are fairly easy.

Of course I appreciate that some era's are stacked and some aren't but that doesn't mean a guy with some success in a strong era would have significantly more in a different era there are just too many variables. Could jake have ruled from 95-2005? I doubt it. H2h i'd favour hopkins over jake and the resume of jake is obviously better as a mw.

No I watch as much film as possible and I spend most evenings watching old fights whilst she watches soaps. The only fights i've put on ice are casamayor's losses at sfw.