ESB Official Rankings Constitution: First Draft

If Pavlik could Ko Taylor impressively however, my position would probably change depending on the outcome of the JC fight.

 

I think this just proves that the only formal set of guidelines we will be able to establish is that we want to vote on the best possible committee who will use logic and sense when compiling any lists.

All of our PoV's on this thread are more sensible than say "Fighter A is more exciting, so I rank him #1" or "Fighter B won 5 titles in 5 weight classes and is therefore #1 in any weight class he enters".

 

I was not speaking from opinion, it is absolute fact that Pavlik makes a long list of technical flaws that Kessler does not and both are of the boxer puncher style.

It is fact that Kessler is quicker, more accurate and has better footwork and a MUCH more refined defence. This is not opinion, Pavlik eats a ton of shots, Kessler does not and his timing and accuracy is literally miles apart from Pavlik's.

You can compare video.

 

Fair enough, although posters should have a chance to justify their decisions if other posters nominate them for eviction from the comittee then. If I were to make a choice based on percieved ability, then I would not like to be criticised by posters who are evaluating on resume alone.

 

I am making a justification on resume/ability. If you need the cold hard truth, Pavlik is not but an inch ahead of Danny Green in ability, but he will obviously have a better resume and will be ranked accordingly.

But there is no 'opinion' in stating that Kessler is more refined, that is 'fact'.

 

Fact is something that can be 100% proven without question. There are too many variables for that to be fact. Styles, opponents, strategies ect. WHilst I agree with your assesment, it is not fact, and never will be. Kessler has less weaknesses, but Pavlik may have more offensive strengths. I actually don't believe so at this point, but if he were to KO Taylor emphatically like you believe he will, then he must.

 

I think that anyone nominated by the committee for removal will have a chance to defend their position.

 

It is opinion though, because they have not fought, and "better" is SOOOO open to interpretation. Pavlik has more punching power and a better chin. Pavlik shows more tenacity and heart. There is no way it is fact. It is an opinion, an educated one, but still an opinion. Fact would be if they fought and Kessler beat him. Then Kesler would be better then Pavlik for a fact.

 

A close analogy, although Pavliks mental game, an intangible, is very hard to measure. Would Pavlik have been beaten by Beyer? I think NOT. Thats why it is still an opinion. Because a lot of aspects in a fighter simply cannot be measured.

 

Fair enough.

 

Pavlik can be ranked higher, that is not what I am arguing. Pavlik does not have Kessler's combinations, timing and accuracy for one, or that stiff pin point jab.

He is not superior offensively, he never will be. This is not far from fact, just KOing Taylor like I say doesn't make you better offensively than some other fighter who is more diversified in SHARPER in every respect and blatantly so.

Taylor is not even within the 160-168 equation when it comes to hard punching big men, he barely handles 154 pounders it seems. If Pavlik could not pressure well, he would lose to Taylor, he wins because of pressure.

Because he can pressure and this is what will give him his KO victory at the end of the day, does not automatically jump his offensive regard up. Librado Andrade's pressure would do the exact same number on Taylor and Librado wins by KO in the same respect, constant pressure and a workrate of hard shots.

Honestly, Pavlik and Andrade can be seen as similiar all around, both are blatantly not operating on Kessler's level.

 

Pavlik beaten by Beyer a few years back? Very possible.

Pavlik is going to become absurdly overrated, even though he already is, when he defeats Taylor. I will be here to even things out.

I have nothing against Pavlik, but he's very average.

 

Taylor is a better fighter then Andrade though, and the version of Mundine that Kessler fought against. Kessler couldn't KO either. If Pavlik can KO both Miranda and Taylor, then it would appear that his offensive abilities are superior to kesslers.

 

I don't rate Pavlik to be honest, which is why I don't particularly agree with your assesment of the JT fight. JT is world class still, if Pavlik beats him impressively then he is definitely a better fighter then I first picked. Pavlik would have beaten Beyer. Pavlik is a MUCH more aggresive fighter then Danny, and thats what would get to Beyer. Danny sits back at times and isn't active enough, where as Pavlik just walks through you.

 

Taylor is absolutely not better than Mundine, that's horse****. And Andrade is good at what he does, pressure with a workrate, that's what Pavlik does from a boxer-puncher stylistic stand point, they are comparable, but I'd pick Andrade to bulldoze Pavlik at 168 and would be as confident as I am in Pavlik bulldozing Taylor.

This stuff is all relative.

Pavlik KOing a crude fighter in Miranda and Taylor does not show his offensive skill to be higher, it shows that his power may be higher.

And Kessler couldn't KO Mundine because Mundine is absurdly slick and hard to tag flush, Echols and Green also could not put him away, nor could Siaca, all of these guys have ample KO power.

Andrade's chin is made from titanium. There is one thing that I would garauntee you however and that is that Kessler would TKO Pavlik before 5 rounds, considering Pavlik's leaky defence and Kessler's supremely efficient offensive arsenal. Combinations would fly on him like they did against Andrade, only Andrade has the stamina and absurd chin to absord that kind of tremendous punishment.