ESB Top 20: Final Elimination Round (PLEASE PARTICIPATE)

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Wladimir Klitschko
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Ezzard Charles
Joe Walcott
Larry Holmes
Jack Dempsey
Jim Jefferies
Evander Holyfield
Jack Johnson
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
Harry Wills
Archie Moore
Sam Langford

 

You have a genius for this old man!

 

Our lists are the exact same except for this. Moore has an underrated consistent streak at HW, but how do you have him over Schemling or Bowe? Even Tunney, or Norton? Interesting last pick (I'd imagine his ranked 20th in that non-order list).

With Moore making your list, Marciano has 4 wins over your top 20 list.

 

Schmeling has more big names and depth than Bowe who is in your list.

Yes, Norton has a win, IMO two, over Ali, and two wins over good contenders. But is this better than what Jeanette or McVey did? Or look at Archie Moore´s hw resume, it´s much deeper as Norton´s but he´s hardly ever mentioned at hw. He close to 40 fights at hw and wins over guys like Arturo Godoy, Jimmy Bivins, Clarance Henry, Nino Valdes, Ezzard Charles, Bob Satterfield, Eddie Machen. Is that worse than Norton´s? Not in my opinion. Do you see Johnson often in Top30 lists?

I don´t like argueing lists, in the end thy are all opinion and comparing fighters of different eras is quite hard and not possible in an objective way.

 

If Voidtali Bitchko gets in the top 20 vid, im going to bloody vomit.

He hasnt even beat 1 Grade B guy in his whole ****ing overated career And his Fangirls still rate him a Grade A.

Byrd was the only Grade B he fought And Quitali quit - "I cant go on, it hurts too much!".

 

Moore has no wins over Charles, and I didn't think he had one over Machen either.

Schemling has that Louis win, and a Sharkey DQ win. Then there's the DQ loss which was controversial and his loss to Baer. Not sure how he has more depth than Bowe. I'm most upset about Schemling not being on because I feel he can be argued over Bowe, Charles, Walcott, etc. It's just he barely missed it.

 

That´s H. Johnson´s resume, or a part of it, and not Moore´s.

Well, you need to dig a bit the late 20s/30s era to appreciate Schmeling´s work. Like Johnny Risko. He was seen as Tunney´s heir. Or Mickey Walker. He came of a draw with Sharkey, the man who very controversially, most people thought he didn´t, took the championship of Schmeling. He was definitly a Top3 hw, perhaps Top2 at the time. Schmeling gave him the only beatdown of his career. Walter Neusel was ranked at Number 3 when Schmeling beat him. Stribling at number two. Hamas was another rising prospect who beat Schmeling who came of the loss to Baer, an even fight up to the stoppage, and got a beating in the rematch, he was ranked at number one or two by that time, that ended his career. And of course there is Uzcudun who was a decent contender for years. You won´t find many hws with more wins over Top5 contenders than Schmeling, something between 5 and 7 - I´m talking world ranked not at an alphabet organization that is.
What DQ loss are you talking about?
Those guys don´t have the names of the fighters Bowe beat, yea, but mostly because people remember those due to growing up/beeing around then. For the other fighters you need to dig a bit.
I rate Schmeling clearly over Bowe and narrowly over Walcott and Charles.

 

The thing that often gets missed about Schmelings resume, is that many of his key opponents were at the absolute pinbacle of their ranking when he fought them e.g. Risko, Uzcdun, Stribling, Walker, Hamas. I think these guys were all ranked in the top 4 when he fought them.

 

Mickey Walker was a P4P machine. But at that point he was an aging former WW?

I got confused, it was a DQ Win over Sharkey and a controversial loss the second time out.

Schemling is right up there with those guys it's just a shame that I can only name 20.

 

Alright Janitor, I'll bite. If I were to edit my list and include Schemling who does he replace? What do you have to say about some his losses as well.

 

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Wladimir Klitschko
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
John L Sullivan
Jack Dempsey
Jim Jefferies
Evander Holyfield
Jack Johnson
Gene Tunney
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
Bob Fitzsimmons
Max Baer
Sam Langford

Came down to Baer vs. Moore for No. 20. Baer is a hometown fighter for me and had one of the meanest rights ever. More established at the weight despite his consistency problems and stacks up better with others on this list imo.

 

I'm not sure if I agree with Bowe's resume is wafer thin past that point. Not much to marvel at, but it has some of those names on Vitali's resume and much earlier. And then some of those guys that Tyson beat. I wonder what the rankings are on the Biggs, Tubbs, guys at the time Bowe beat them. That would interest (Pssh, Mongoose, appear now!)

Either way, winning a series against Holyfield is pretty damn good. A lot of HWs don't have 2 wins as good as the ones against a prime or near prime Holyfield.

I agree with your last statement. Makes it all the most unfortunate that I can't seem to include Schemling.

I don't think too highly on Baer skill-wise, but there's not much shame in losing to such a puncher. Of course, no shame in losing to Louis.

Interesting. Where they chances of overturning the decisions? Robbery in what fashion? Most thought Schemling won or comparable to Louis-Walcott I?

Thanks for the clear response back Janitor. :good