ESB Top 20: Final Elimination Round (PLEASE PARTICIPATE)

Why the hell are so many of you including Fitzsimmons over Willis? Are you guys doing a "The best guys that fought at HW list" or a "best HW list?"

Why is even Langford on some peoples list and not Willis? Willis got the better of their series, and was the more consistent of the two as a fighter.

Guess you're right McGrain... Willis is pretty damn underrated/under-appreciated.

 

I think outside of Uzcudun all were Top3, you can also throw in Sharkey, Louis and Neusel. There aren´t 10 hws with more Top3 wins than him.

No, he was not! He just came of a draw with the reigning world heavyweight champion. How is that "an aging former ww"?

Sharkey just beat Schmeling very controversally. Most had Schmeling winning, the term "robbed" comes from that very fight because after the decision was announced Schmelin´gs manager Joe Jacobs scremed the famous line "we wuz robbed". Then Sharkey went on and drawed with Walker. Then Schmeling beat Walker to a pulp. Those were the three best hws at that moment.

The only losses that mean something are the ones against Baer, Hamas and Louis. Schmeling also beat Hamas and Louis. Losing against Baer, or Louis, isn´t a shame and that fight was about even after 10. Baer said Schmeling had him really hurt at one point and that he was lucky Schmeling didn´t get it.

A win over prime Louis is better than that. And he has more depth. I just don´t see any case of ranking Bowe above him but then I´m not particularly high on Bowe.

I don´t think Bruce Willis had even one fight at heavyweight though.

I have Sullivan in instead of Wills the only reason is that Sullivan needs to be in that vid. He started it all.

 

Because I like Archie... more. None of the guys were easy to take off of the list and it came down to that.

 

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Wladimir Klitschko
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
Jack Dempsey
Jim Jefferies
Evander Holyfield
Jack Johnson
Max Schmeling
Gene Tunney
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
Riddick Bowe
Ken Norten
Archie Moore

 

01. Muhammad Ali
02. Joe Louis
03. Lennox Lewis
04. George Foreman
05. Joe Frazier
06. Jersey Joe Walcott
07. Floyd Patterson
08. Max Schmeling
09. Mike Tyson
10. Evander Holyfield
11. Rocky Marciano
12. Jack Dempsey
13. Jim Jeffries
14. Ezzard Charles
15. Peter Jackson
16. Harry Wills
17. Sonny Liston
18. Wladimir Klitschko
19. Sam Langford
20. Jack Johnson

 

Because he had over 100 fights, was 2-3 weightclasses removed from his WW prime, and over 30. It's a testament to walker and amazing he drew with Sharkey and beat Uzcudun. After the Schemling fight he couldn't recapture the LHW championship.

It's crazy thinking of Walker as one of the three best HWs. Almost like thinking of Greb beating Dempsey. Just seems a little far-fetched. Obviously qualifies if that's where the term originated.

Debatable, we're talking about the HW champion of the world in Holyfield. Louis is consistently marked as being green or pre-prime. Maybe it's just revisionism, even the Joe Louis doc said he was enjoy the high life and playing golf as opposed to training.

Harry Willis has a case to be rated over Dempsey, let alone Sullivan. Why did you rank Langford over him? As far as P4P or as a fighter that's one thing but at HW that just seems wrong. Willis got the better of their series and beat better opposition and was more consistent at HW.

 

What I think is sort of interesting is I have 11 names post 1955 (Marciano). Sort of mid-way split (I didn't include Sullivan and 19th century guys).

Replacing Schemling with Bowe would make it 10 and 10 for each time-split.

 

I have probably learned more about Schmeling from the newspaper acounts after the first Hamas fight, than from all others combined!

In his prime Schmeling would have done this, or that .

He would have feinted with the overhand right, then landed a sneaky left hook to the solar plexus, then landed an uppercut!

They described a few tricks, that I later picked up on film, having missed them previously!

 

So? He came of a draw with the hw champ, so he was not an aging former ww but a legitimate hw, a Top3 hw in fact. Walker could have never recapture the lhw championship because he never was lhw champion. Anyway, Schmeling could give career ending beatings, ask Steve Hamas.
Saying Walker was a former aging ww is revisionist.

Yes, it is crazy. But these guys were that good. Walker once said he prefers fighting hws to smaller guys because they are so slow and unskilled.

Louis just beat Carnera and Baer. Many people think the Baer fight was, outside of the second Schmeling fight, his best performance. Yes, it is revisionist history.

Harry Wills has. Harry Willis hasn´t.
Yes, Wills definitly has an argument to be ranked over Dempsey, Sullivan and Langford. Like I said, I only have Sullivan in there because he needs to be in there. It all began with him. Wills is the only guy I could let of without feeling too bad.

 

Schmeling is a very unusual fighter with some subtile traits you don´t get on first glance. A bit like Marciano. For esample, hee always stood at a bit of an angle to his opponents that made it hard for them to land clean and easier for him to land a lead right. That was odd and awkward for his opponents - in recent times Carl Froch is actually doing something similar.

 

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Larry Holmes
George Foreman
Lennox Lewis
Sonny Liston
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Jim Jefferies
Rocky Marciano
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
Ezzard Charles
Joe Walcott
Gene Tunney
Floyd Patterson
Sam Langford
John L Sullivan

 

I am sure i will miss an obvious one, but off the top of my head:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Johnson
4. Sullivan
5. Marciano
6. Jeffries
7. Tyson
9. Holmes
10. Lewis
11. Foreman
12. Dempsey
13. Walcott
14. Fitzsimmons
15. Corbett
16. Tunney
17. Frazier
18. Holyfield
19. Bowe
20. Liston

(not necessessarilly in order and Klitchskos not considereed). And it must be said that this is an ubelievably difficulct choice, to leave some guys off. Leaving out Jackson, BAer, Schmelling, Langford, Wills, charles, Walcott and several others just seems plain wrong. But someone has to miss out i suppose.