ESB Weight Obession: Class vs Mass

Trash talking aside, these guys proved their ability to comprehensively destroy world class fighters the size of modern super heavyweights.

That is a strong argument in their favour in cross era fantasy fights.

If you think that Pascal will beat Willard, then you obviously don’t think that size is that important.

 

He doesn't seem overly confident here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z91TfFDNcDw

Seriously, if you are suggesting that the shot Holyfield who fought Valuev had even the most remote chance against either Klit, I think the discussion can stop here. I heard enough.

 

The bow and arrow used to be "world class" cutting-edge technology. Not anymore. If Willard was world class in 1919 (and I doubt that), he wouldn't be today.

 

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Boxing is not about what you can do, it is about what you can’t do.

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I don't know about that, Janitor. Howard Hill won 196 archery tournaments in a row and even killed an elephant with a bow and arrows. Darrell Pace has a shitload of Gold medals from the Olympics and the Pan Am Games. Plus, there's this Hungarian named Kassai Lajos who's a beast and is almost single handedly reviving mounted archery. Of course, I could be wrong. Their marksmanship and speed might be alright. Their equipment might even be better. But they are probably missing some things by not having to apply them head to head like modern snipers would. Though who knows, since some bow hunters preserve the craft of silently stalking game and things like that.

I know that there are modern speed shooters who would blow Wild Bill Hickock, Wyatt Earp, and Billy the Kid out of their boots even though dueling has been abolished for a century.

Some of our modern fencers are just amazing. There are the Olympic fencers obviously who use foils and fence in a line, and then there are the more traditional guys. Ironically, some of the greatest swordsmen came along in the era of gunpowder like Jean-Louis Michel a Napoleonic fencer. Where there is world wide competition like fencing at the Olympics or the World Kendo Championships some talent will arise.

These archaic sports are a funny thing. Long after we stopped riding horses we still have the Kentucky Derby and long since airplanes and steamboats were invented we still have sailing ships and yacht races keeping old muscles in shape. When is the last time you had to row somewhere, but we break those records all the time?

Did you know there's a fellow named Shane Adams who as we converse is putting together a jousting team for international competition? They made a show about it called Full Metal Jousting that aired last year on the History channel. Looks legit. Just look at the success of Pride and the UFC in modern times. We've managed to bring pankration back into the public consciousness after two thousand years, and some of those guys are very good.

I know they'll never let us have swords in tourney's again, but I pray for a day when we get stick fighting back. Eskrima or longstaff, I don't care. Let's get it on!

 

Definitely.

The competitive level was quite a bit higher in ww2 than in subsequent conflicts so you see about a dozen snipers with around 500 confirmed kills. Those records will hopefully never be broken. But there are a handful of guys since who could probably hold their own with those older fellows.

1974-2013 Chris Kyle: US Navy Seal sniper Iraq War, 160 confirmed kills, 255 probable kills
1949-present Chuck Mawhinney: Vietnam marine sniper 103 confirmed kills, 216 probable kills
1942-1999 Carlos Hath****: Vietnam marine sniper 93 confirmed kills
1933-1995 Adelbert Waldron: Vietnam US Army sniper with 109 confirmed kills
1931-2007 Zhang Taofang: Chinese Korean War sniper, 214 kills in 32 days
1924-1999 Lloyd L. Burke: MOH Korean War, killed 100 men, 2 mortar, 3 machine gun nests

Bob Munden is a sight to see, if you want to drop by youtube. He holds 18 world records for the fast draw and is a very accurate marksman. It's also worth checking out Jerry Miculek on there setting his records with revolvers on single and multiple targets.

Badass.

That's about the opinion I've come to. Buddy Baer, Fred Fulton, Primo Carnera, Abe Simon, Jess Willard, and Ernie Terrell were probably a lot like our current crop of second class big boys.

That's mostly right, but if Max Schmeling could knock Louis out and Bob Pastor, Tommy Farr, and Arturo Godoy could go the distance I'd give Foreman a shot.

It was sort of matched already by Ali, and nearly by a handful of other guys. I'm not saying he isn't a unique talent, but I think we'll see another like him in my lifetime. I think that skill level in heavyweight boxing is maybe two in a century. I love Shakespeare but there have been maybe ten other writers just as talented and accomplished over the course of 2,500 years. I'm talking Homer, Dante, Vyasa, Firdawsi, Valmiki, Virgil, Cao Xueqin, Tolstoy, Aeschylus, Ovid, possibly Goethe. Mozart is great but there were only a few years separating him from Bach or Beethoven. Michelangelo is great, but he's living contemporary with Raphael and Leonardo, then a century or so later there's Caravaggio, Rembrandt, Rubens, and Bernini. Just when we think basketball doesn't get any better than Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain along comes Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. Look out Arnold Palmer, here comes Tiger Woods.

Agreed. If Chris Byrd could accomplish what he did in the present heavyweight scene then Joe Louis would destroy.