ESB's Chinchecker Strikes Again!!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Zakman, Jul 26, 2008.


  1. Ayatollah

    Ayatollah ESB's Godliest poster Full Member

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    He took alot of damn bombs Zak, come on now.

    its not iron, true, its average to good.
     
  2. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    Like I said, not glass. But when you look over the entire career, Cotto's punch resistance is below average, at best. I prefer the term "shaky" to describe the high end of fighters with less than stellar punch resistance.
     
  3. Dr.Stobulas

    Dr.Stobulas Active Member Full Member

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    Forgive me, i've made a few alterations to your list.
    Just my opinion

    I've replaced average with - decent
    and sturdy with - very good


    Calzaghe's chin is no way average.
    The Mitchell, and Salem knockdowns
    were HUGE shots that would have
    ko'd somebody with an average chin.
    Yet, on both occasions he got straight
    back up as if nothing had happened.
    I've seen him take plenty flush bombs
    with no discernable effect, whatsoever.
    And i've never seen him wobbled or
    in any serious danger, either!
     
  4. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    I don't have too many quarrels with your adjustments. I knocked off the first typology pretty quickly, yours is a bit more precise. As far as Calzaghe is concerned, you have a point. As I said in a previous post, I think his chin is a cut above Pavlik's, for example.

    These things can always be refined. And, as with many things, in the middle ranges, the categorization is more difficult than it is at the high or low end. So I recognize that these "middle range" guys can be categorized at any one of a number of levels, depending on your standard.

    But chin analysis is a very important thing to do in predicting fights, which is my main point. You've done a very good job with it.:good
     
  5. Leeroy

    Leeroy Do it Do it Full Member

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    Why that's a fine list you got there, although I would move Calzaghe up to the "Sturdy" section.

    I'd love to get your thoughts (basing off of the same system you just posted) someday on the greatest chins in boxing history.

    Jake Lamotta for example surely has to be in the Titanium or Tungsten category, right?

    Cotto's chin might be shaky, but he took some shots throughout, was noticeably hurt on a couple of occasions; but I think it was the nonstop pressure and accumulation from Toney that ultimately made him fold, rather than having chin problems.

    Great chin? No.....but certainly not the worst. I say it's decent, and definitely not the reason he lost the fight against Toney.
     
  6. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    Cotto's chin did not betray him vs Margarito.

    Its Margarito who should get the credit here.
    In a fight where both fought great, Margarito's strenghths outdid Cotto's strenghths.

    The best Welterweight won period!
     
  7. Dr.Stobulas

    Dr.Stobulas Active Member Full Member

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    Thank you:good

    Chin analysis is something that I also base alot of importance on for predicting fights. I even study the shape of the fighters head, and length and width of the neck, as well. For me, one of the biggest indicators of a bad chin, is when a fighter is getting knocked down by non-punchers early in their career, like Khan, or Haye. Of course there are always exceptions, De la Hoya for instance. But generally I see it as bad omen.

    A WEAK CHIN WILL EVENTUALLY BE EXPOSED AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL!
     
  8. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    Exactly. Incidentally, that's why I was concerned about Cotto, after he got put on ***** street by Corley, who's hardly a big puncher and was outweighed by 17 pounds. That's why I was pretty confident he would eventually get stopped against Margarito. Again, I agree his chin isn't glass, but it's not granite either. How bad, we can debate, but "sturdy" it isn't

    Anyway, it's nice to see some fans recognize the importance of punch resistance in analyzing and predicting fight outcomes!:good
     
  9. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    Marg is not a 1 punch hitter also, remember that. A lot of arm punches.
     
  10. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    I of course recognise it, but I figured Marg wasn't complete granite after seeing Clottey school him first 4 rounds and even stun him, then again, Cotto fought a bad gamplan to follow up on it.

    I also thought Marg was 1 dimensional limitation, which I still do, after seeing Clotey and Williams school him... but then again, both of those guys take a better shot than Cotto.

    Guess it is punch resistance.
     
  11. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    See it IS. If Cotto could have held up to what Margarito was throwing, he wouldn't have been as tentative, wouldn't have run as much, and - most importantly - would have been able to stand up to the onslaught in the 11th. Solid punch resistance enables fighters to weather storms like that and make it to the final bell.
     
  12. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    If he had better punch resistance, he'd have actually been able to push Margarito back as well, which would have been disasterous for Margarito in the end.

    It's a valid thing.

    But he's certainly not glass, like some thought years back. Maybe just 'average'.

    Calzaghe is also better than average, he's got a very good chin, was caught off balance a few times and has never been badly hurt despite taking some huge shots. Joe can take a shot!:nod

    Tell you what, the only good thing this weekend, all of those Cotto fans saying he'd be greater than Calzaghe very soon, how wrong were they. Calzaghe's a real gem, undefeated for 11 years at the championship levels.:yep

    Beat much better fighters than Marg also, MUCH BETTER.

    Oh an, I still had some drinks tonight, birtuday celebration. Us lftists peace lovers are alawsy drunks and drugs I supise. Whatever.
     
  13. Dr.Stobulas

    Dr.Stobulas Active Member Full Member

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  14. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    Not much is worse than Khan badly hurt by feather fisted(on domestic circuit) Limond.

    Yet so much faith in Khan.:rofl
     
  15. ThePlugInBabies

    ThePlugInBabies ♪ ♫ Full Member

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    holyfield-bowe III?