ESB's "Unofficial" MMA Champs, 1881 to 1993

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by cross_trainer, Sep 15, 2011.


Page 1 of 3
  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    12,906
    6,253
    Jun 30, 2005
    Let's try something a little different: Who would you consider the best fighters in the world from 1881 to 1993?

    I'm talking about sheer ability. This guy needn't have competed in any official MMA bouts (although it helps). Think of them as the "baddest men on the planet".

    I'll post ESB's unofficial rankings as people contribute:



    1881 - William Miller, Australian Greco-Roman & bareknuckle champion
    1882
    1883
    1884
    1885
    1886
    1887
    1888
    1889 - William Muldoon, boxer and Greco-Roman champion, flattens Sullivan
    1890
    1891
    1892
    1893
    1894
    1895
    1896 -
    1897
    1898
    1899 - Jeffries routinely wrestles Greco-Roman champion Ernest Roeber and wins the heavyweight boxing title.
    1900
    1901
    1902
    1903
    1904
    1905 - Mitsuyo Maeda competes against fighters from a variety of styles. Gotch would probably have beaten him, though.
    1906
    1907
    1908
    1909
    1910
    1911
    1912
    1913
    1914
    1915
    1916
    1917
    1918
    1919
    1920
    1921
    1922
    1923
    1924
    1925
    1926 - Paul Berlenbach becomes lightheavyweight boxing champion. Previously, he won the AAU's wrestling championship.
    1927
    1928
    1929
    1930
    1931
    1932
    1933 - Chang Tung Sheng becomes China's heavyweight champion in a no-holds-barred tournament with hundreds of competitors.
    1934
    1935
    1936
    1937 - Masahiko Kimura: (incredible) judoka and (decent) karateka
    1938
    1939
    1940
    1941
    1942
    1943
    1944
    1945
    1946
    1947
    1948
    1949 - Kimura goes on tour, defeating various types of fighters in Europe
    1950
    1951 - Kimura defeats Helio Gracie
    1952
    1953
    1954
    1955 - Waldemar Santana defeats Helio Gracie; stakes claim to title
    1956 - Carlson Gracie fights Waldemar Santana; title unclear
    1957
    1958 - Danny Hodge compiles an 8-2 professional boxing record after winning the Golden Gloves a silver medal in Olympic freestyle wrestling
    1959 - Kimura fights Waldemar Santa to a draw; title unclear
    1960
    1961
    1962
    1963 - Lebell beats Milo Savage; may be the best in the world at this point
    1964
    1965 - Bluming earns his 6th degree Kyokushin blackbelt and challenges all comers to a no-rules match in a boxing ring. Probably #1 by now.
    1966
    1967
    1968
    1969
    1970
    1971
    1972
    1973
    1974
    1975 - Benny Urquidez wins the "World Series of Martial Arts" MMA competition
    1976 - Inoki "fights" Ali in one of history's more bizarre matchups. (Technically, he outstruck Ali...)
    1977
    1978
    1979
    1980 - Rickson Gracie wins his first fight with Rei Zulu and enters his prime
    1981
    1982
    1983
    1984
    1985
    1986
    1987
    1988
    1989
    1990 - Minoki Ichihara wins open-weight Daido Juku (Kyokushin/Judo) Competitions [Royce defeated him later on, so this might not count for much]
    1991
    1992
     
    cross_trainer, Sep 15, 2011
    cross_trainer, Sep 15, 2011
    #1
  2. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

    13,685
    350
    May 25, 2007
    1963- Gene Lebell defeated Milo Savage, in a judoka vs boxer bout, by way of submission.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9mER2BmNRA[/ame]
     
    rekcutnevets, Sep 15, 2011
    rekcutnevets, Sep 15, 2011
    #2
  3. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    2
    Apr 4, 2008
    Where would you put the 55-65 LeBell in there. Won the National Judo Championship 2 years in a row 55-56. Despite being 165lbs In 63 he then choked out Milo Savage in one of the famous Boxer v Grappler fightsof the Pre_MMA era, which should be noted that Savage used the fingerless sparring mitts that we see today in MMA

    Im not that knowledgeable on Gene, just from what I read on Wiki and t'internet. Was the 1st name that came to mind
     
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    #3
  4. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    2
    Apr 4, 2008
    You ****er Rek, too me ages to find a source and type all that hehe ;):patsch
     
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    #4
  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    12,906
    6,253
    Jun 30, 2005
    Lebell was hard to place, sandwiched as he was between Bluming (who I think could have beaten him) and an aging Kimura.

    I put his claim up there, though, after his 1963 victory over Savage. :good
     
    cross_trainer, Sep 15, 2011
    cross_trainer, Sep 15, 2011
    #5
  6. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    2
    Apr 4, 2008
    OK then try again

    Edward William Barton-Wright, I aint typing no more hehe no sure if he qualifies though as it was a self defence art and I dont know if he competed at all

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_William_Barton-Wright[/url]
     
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    #6
  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    12,906
    6,253
    Jun 30, 2005
    After further consideration, I think you could probably date Bluming's dominance definitively from 1965 onward, so Lebell might well have been the best in the world until at least '63 or '64.

    Good call, btw.
     
    cross_trainer, Sep 15, 2011
    cross_trainer, Sep 15, 2011
    #7
  8. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    2
    Apr 4, 2008
    And Inoki defeated Ali in 76, not really sure if that fight should be considered a work or not though.
     
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    #8
  9. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    2
    Apr 4, 2008
    Out of interest did Gene defeat any notable Japanese Judoka?
     
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    #9
  10. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

    13,685
    350
    May 25, 2007
    :lol:
     
    rekcutnevets, Sep 15, 2011
    rekcutnevets, Sep 15, 2011
    #10
  11. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    2
    Apr 4, 2008
    Early Gracie fights, for those who haven't seen them

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSPL2BFepgU[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u-lmW8gqZg&feature=related[/ame]
     
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    #11
  12. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

    13,685
    350
    May 25, 2007
    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9lio_Gracie[/url]

    1932- Helio Gracie had his first fight, defeating boxer Antonio Portugal.


    1932: Draw with Takashi Namiki
    1932: Draw with Fred Ebert
    1934: Draw with Wladek Zbyszko
    1934: Submitted Taro Miyake by choke
    1935: Submitted Dudu by Side Kick to the spleen.
    1935: Draw with Yassuiti Ono
    1936: Draw with Takeo Yano
    1936: Submitted Massagoichi by armlock
    1936: Draw with Yassuiti Ono
    1937: Submitted Erwin Klausner by armlock
    1937: Submitted Espingarda
    1950: Submitted Landulfo Caribe by choke
    1950: Submitted Azevedo Maia by choke
    1951: Draw with Kato
    1951: Submitted Kato by choke
    1951: Defeated by Masahiko Kimura by Kimura lock
    1955: Defeated by Valdemar Santana by TKO (fight duration 3h 42min)
    1967: Submitted Valdomiro dos Santos Ferreira by choke
     
    rekcutnevets, Sep 15, 2011
    rekcutnevets, Sep 15, 2011
    #12
  13. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

    25,846
    2
    Apr 4, 2008
    That Santana fight makes Royce V Saku look like a warm up
     
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    Stoo, Sep 15, 2011
    #13
  14. One Punch KO

    One Punch KO Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,934
    0
    Mar 14, 2009
    Great thread. Do you have a first hand account of the Muldoon/Sullivan fight CT? I read a biography of John L. a couple of years back and can't recall that episode.

    Jigoro Kano has to be considered for the earliest part of the timeline. He'd be at a huge size disadvantage against the likes of Muldoon and Sullivan but his judo might have made him competitive. I'm trying to find out if he faced any fighters of renown after 1882.
     
    One Punch KO, Sep 15, 2011
    One Punch KO, Sep 15, 2011
    #14
  15. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    12,906
    6,253
    Jun 30, 2005
    Just realized how much of a muddle it becomes in the late 1950's...:blood
     
    cross_trainer, Sep 15, 2011
    cross_trainer, Sep 15, 2011
    #15
Page 1 of 3