ESPN Films 30 for 30: Muhammad & Larry

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Oct 24, 2018.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    401,394
    83,260
    Nov 30, 2006
    The film co-helmed by Oscar-nominated documentarian Albert Maysles (based on the skeleture of a lower-budget project shot decades earlier when ESPN was a fledgling network) premiered exactly nine years ago this coming Saturday. It had been on my to-watch list when it first aired but slipped by the wayside for nearly a decade, until borrowed from the library on impulse yesterday when it caught my eye in passing on the shelf.

    As standalone docos on sports go, it was pretty good. Casuals or non-fans of boxing will of course be at least peripherally familiar with all its salient points, which have trickled into mainstream pop culture lore and spent a generation or two stewing into myth: that Ali stayed on too longw; was ironically done in by the same overconfidence that had, as much as his talents, propelled him to global superstardom; that greedy promoters and the Vegas machine conspired to entice him with the sirenss call to his eventual doom (with the unspoken implication that maybe his previous wear and tear mightn't have germinated into Parkinson's if he truly had quit while on top after Spinks II or earlier); and that maybe Larry Holmes got a raw deal in terms of being written off as "dollar-store Ali", never getting his due respect despite being a Great heavyweight champion in his own right and near enough a true equal of his predecessor's as it gets. Nothing really new here, just some quaint peeks behind the curtain of each man's camp in 1980, plus some of the Assassin cruising around Easton in present day and snippets of sparring footage that suggests Ali being handled by the likes of Tim Witherspoon but laughing it off as reacquainting himself with the feeling of absorbing blows.

    It was overall a bit rah-rah for Ali to my liking, with a very maudlin tone portraying him as the victim when the blame can most generously be lain at the feet of his own hubris...and more cynically at his disregard of his legacy for a cash-grab (depending on how sincerely yours read his 38-yesr-old young man's quixotic bravado). It attempted to be even-handed in tipping its hat to Holmes as being a great underappreciated champion but still casts the fall of his former boss as the highest tragedy, and somehow uniquely tragic despite being neither the first nor last tale of pitiable decline of a Titan of boxing (see Louis, et al).

    Ultimately, with a runtime of just 52 minutes, would recommend for a rainy day to while an hour away, with a few grins to be had at each man's starkly contrasted gift of gab - and one very dark moment in which Drew Bundini Brown basically trolls sports journalists for being exploitative vultures with barely concealed rage. Not going to be too edifying or interesting for hardcore fans but that wasn't really the point of ESPN's 30 for 30 series anyway.
     
  2. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

    16,261
    15,324
    Jun 9, 2007
    Watched this many times. What's pitiful to me is how badly Ali needed to be the center of attention at all times just couldn't let it go and give anyone there just due. Dont know how anybody can like the man on a personal level but to each his own. For all the hate Holmes gets I'll take how he conducts himself over the way Ali did any day of the week.
    What also kills me is how Dundee makes a big issue of stopping the fight while that idiot Bundini actually wanted to let it go on!!! Dundee should have stopped that #### after the 3rd or 4th!! regardless of what Murad wanted. Murad wasnt taking the beating. Holmes has been taking a beating over this fight forever now. What the hell were people expecting from Holmes? Ali wanted the fight and Holmes wanted the fight stopped on more than one occasion if I remember correctly. I just dont like how Holmes gets crucified by so many over this fight
     
  3. steve21

    steve21 Well-Known Member

    1,903
    3,348
    Jan 19, 2015
    Well done doc - my favorite moment was before the fight, when Ali was getting out of his limo and the passenger said he'd talked to Holmes; Ali stopped and asked, "Did he say anything about me?" The passenger said, "Yeah - he said he likes you." Not sarcastic or mean, but sincere - and Ali responded, with a guileless look in his eyes, "I like him too." In that moment, you saw what really made Ali tick - he wanted to be liked by everyone - and Holmes' opinion mattered. Touching, in a bromance fashion ...
     
    Saintpat and IntentionalButt like this.
  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    401,394
    83,260
    Nov 30, 2006
    It was a little confusing they bothered to interview Bundini - and later included that moment where he's arguing with Dundee at what passes for the film's dramatic climax (the felling of the Great Beast that was Ali...with the later official swansong of the Berbick fight given not even the dignity of a second of screen-time, just a quick text interstitial) but didn't bother asking him "wtf exactly were you thinking in that moment? What did you see in Ali that suggested to you he could or should continue at that point? :dunno"

    Although based on that intimidating glare and venomous tone he fixed on the interviewer for a perfectly innocent query about Holmes' convivial relationship with Ali during the sparring days, probably they were just scared to ask him anything quite so confrontational. :lol:
     
  5. steve21

    steve21 Well-Known Member

    1,903
    3,348
    Jan 19, 2015
    You also have to wonder why Bundini - who purported to be one of Muhammad's closest friends - would WANT to push him out for another round of getting beaten? The cynic in me, aware of Bundini's hanger-on status that he exploited fully, wonders if he had some financial incentive ... I can't imagine Howard Bingham, who demonstrated many times over the years that he was a true friend to Muhammad and never abused the relationship, doing anything like that.
     
  6. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

    4,474
    3,857
    Sep 21, 2012

    As I understand it, Ali knew Bundini was more of the ghetto- hood typed brothers. He had him and some other shady people around for certain reasons. I don't think Ali really ever considered him a friend, rather someone who had that ******ish mindset that could motivate him when he needed it.

    My biggest gripe with Ali is how or why he stopped communicating with his brother Rudolph. Even if it is true Ali's wife lonnie had a falling out anbd denied access, how could so much time go by and Ali not reach out himself.
    Tell his wife his kids, anybody....get my brother. I want to kick it with him, be with him.

    Since I've never read about sibling rivarly between the two, that stumps me. Pass the horrid racial epithets he gave to Frazier, the insults to Liston, his denial to acknowledge Holmes as a great champ..I begrudgingly looked passed it. But's its hard to understand how Ali could be so beautiful to the world, yet so wishy-washy flip flop with his own (black) people, as a Muslim, let alone his baby bruh.:(
     
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    401,394
    83,260
    Nov 30, 2006
    Like he might have put some money on an over 11.5 rounds prop or something? He can't have possibly believed that Ali could still do anything to reverse course and pull off the W...