ESPN2: Óscar Rafael Valdez Fierro vs. Scott Quigg & Erick De León vs. Andy Vences RBR

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Mar 10, 2018.


  1. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Nothing beast like about him in the least, he's a featherfisted glass jawed runner, he looked good early, gassed in the middle, landed a ton of flurries on Quigg's gloves, while Quigg was clipping him with clean shots, then managed to slightly edge the last 3, barely, and everyone is talking about what a great job he did.:lol: Please, gimme a ****ing break.
     
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  2. uppercut_to_the_body

    uppercut_to_the_body Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Damn it I;ve been had, the way people were talking about the fight you'd swear he was an iron chinned moster puncher. :lol:
     
  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Well when he walking around with his mouth agape with gore dripping from his bottom lip, he did look pretty monstrous.:lol:
     
  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    CST80 is being harsh. Valdez put in a very strong opening 2-3 rounds that in the short-term made a big impression but cost him loads of energy going for the KO, a foolish strategic gaffe that almost got him KTFO in the 4th-6th. Quigg is nothing special and did nothing special except be the larger, heavier man with a good chin, applying sloppy pressure and throwing haymakers. That said, it was nearly enough to crush Valdez, who looked very fragile in that stretch (and that was before the blood even started flowing). What impressed people, rightfully so, about this victory is that Valdez held on through such a period of adversity with the presence of mind to make the necessary adjustments to set aside his machismo and just start point-scoring. He stayed close enough to Quigg for the most part that he still got hit with and clearly affected by Quigg's bombs as late as the 9th and 11th, but struck a fairly good compromise between not being a "runner" and not being a kamikaze pilot, either. Had this been someone that you didn't have a chip on your shoulder against for whatever reason you'd be hailing the way he came back in the 2nd half, and you know it. Not many fighters can rally from being that gassed and that hurt, that early.

    Even for him just to earn a draw on your card, you have to admit took a pretty Herculean effort.

    He's flawed but exciting; I don't see the problem. I think I've kept more of an even keel with Valdez over the years, as he never really distinguished himself for me from the rest of the pack of hyped prospects that were roughly his age in roughly his weight range (JoJo Diaz, Verdejo, Jose Ramirez) - in fact none of them did. They all seemed "okay" to me, and I took more of a "wait and see" type of stance on them all, while most rushed to raise the banners and "pick a side" in the hopes of eventually "being right" about which of them would turn out to be great. As far as I was concerned in their early careers, maybe all of them would and maybe none of them would - most likely they'd all land somewhere in the "pretty good" range...and I think I've ended up being the most "correct" of all (while being the one person that wasn't even playing the game). So while you might have pushed a big pile of chips in Valdez's direction and been disappointed or felt betrayed when he plateaued in his development and it became apparent that he wasn't the chosen one destined for p4p glory, maybe you took it hard. When that happened I just shrugged and thought "well he's still pretty entertaining, and worth a watch anytime he's on..."
     
  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Yes he did hit gloves a lot but the bottom line is that when he's blocking, Quigg isn't throwing. Man can't walk and chew gum at the same time; he's very one-dimensional. So while it may not been flashy or eye-catching offense all the way down the stretch from Valdez in the second half, it was strategically effective. He threw light pit-pat stuff as like ninja smoke grenades to gain the upper ground and put himself into position to land very sharp overhand rights, all throughout even the later rounds. There isn't a single round where "Quigg landed more accurately" isn't a disingenuous statement. In all the rounds where Valdez was throwing light nothing flurries into the gloves, he also was strapping Quigg on the jaw with right hands every now and then, striking just the right balance to not ever put himself in danger in one spot for too long while still racking up points. Quigg landed mostly rabbit punches and low blows all night, interspersed with some legitimate body punches and clubbing right hands but they were all oblique, virtually none of them delivered with truly sharp accuracy.
     
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  6. uppercut_to_the_body

    uppercut_to_the_body Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Watching it now I'm not really enjoying it. It's more frustrating than anything. Both fighters have such clear gaps in their skill sets that just give the feeling something is missing.
     
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  7. The Akbar One

    The Akbar One Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Missing weight by almost three pounds was bull****, and gave him a significant advantage in the ring. Luckily, for Valdez, Quigg isn't that good.
     
  8. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I guess it's one of those that knowing the result kind of saps it of any drama the live viewing had.

    Valdez came out like a house on fire and legitimately seemed to believe he was going to rip Quigg's head off early, which off the bat put everybody watching live on the edge of their seat thinking "WTF is he doing? This is crazy!" and then in the next few it became a growing feeling of unease, like "Oh, I know this narrative. The bigger less skilled guy is going to wear down the idiot that needlessly blew his wad and probably threw away the fight..only a matter of time now.." and then from there came a couple more lesser momentum shifts, which by the championship rounds had cast a pall of uncertainty over the whole thing. In the late going you felt like either one might get stopped.

    But yeah in hindsight, predictably (true-to-character) average showing from Quigg, and in all honesty a night that Valdez should pragmatically view as more of a teachable moment than a glorious triumph. His coaches ought to be tearing him a new one right now for the way he came out in the first 3.
     
  9. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    @IntentionalButt The precise reason why I'm being so harsh is.... I don't rate Quigg at all, in fact I don't like him all that much, he has a supremely punchable face, he was somewhat skilled going into the Frampton fight, but since joining Roach he's turned into a mindless plodding punching bag, one with limited power at that, his power hasn't carried up to FW all that well, and him coming in overweight probably didn't help him all that much either, since he's a natural Super Bantamweight. It slowed him down, made him lethargic and sluggish. He should have been easier to beat if anything. He's coming off of several matches where it took him nearly the entire fight to get guys like Cayetano out of there. Quigg is the definition of bang on average as the Brits say.

    And that bang on average natural Super Bantamweight who most on the site thought was an easy win, took Valdez to the brink and almost had him out of there on several occasions. Did he outright beat him? No. But the fact that a year ago, I would have without hesitation picked Valdez to not only beat Quigg, but make quick work of him, shows just how far he's fallen in my eyes. Am I being harsh? Yes, but Jesus Christ, when you barely survive career altering wars against Marriaga, Servania and Scott Quigg..... you deserve a brutally harsh assessment.

    Yes knowing the result ahead of time probably did color my view of the match and how I scored it, I didn't have the same suspense level that Pinoy and you had going into each and every round, but that also allowed me to judge it a little more clearly IMO. I wasn't expecting a KO, so it lowered my expectations, and what I saw was a guy struggle mightily, almost get KO'd, go life and death and have his face nearly tore off by a guy he should have KO'd or at the very least, wide UD'd, put on a dunderheaded once again, thoroughly subpar performance.

    Granted I was one of the guys saying Quigg could beat him, but the reason I did, was not because I like Quigg, but to point out just how far Valdez has sadly fallen, and I was proven kind of correct once again.

    He in the course of a year has gone from one of my favorite prospects and a guy I thought could go on to dominant the division to a low level bizarre hybrid of Brandon Rios and a piss poor Amir Khan.
     
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