Essexboy's 40 Greatest Latino Boxers

Due to the devastation of his attacks and the different styles he managed to thwart without being bested once prior to moving up, yes. Barrera was a better puncher in combination, especially off the counter, but when both fighters got in full flow Zarate was far more destructive I feel. Depends on what you prefer, really.

That's true. I do think Barrera had excellent balance, and that is indeed a mark of good foot placement. However, a guy like Nicolino Loccche had fantastic balance, but in his later career footage I'd hardly say he had great footwork because his shoes seemed like they were filled with cement at times. He lacked the mobility to really shine in that department. Barrera, while he did show the ability to circle and jab well at times, was often more of a stalker and a plodder who was simply looking to make the range to get off with his combos. He wouldn't have been as thoroughly troubled as he was by Junior Jones had he really had good mobility and pressuring skills. Chavez had better footwork than he, IMO. Some of the best ever for a pressure fighter.

That may be true, but I can't see Barrera ever blitzing through his opposition with such dominance and consistency over such a period the way Zarate did. 56-0 with 55 KO's prior to meeting the phenom Wilfredo Gomez at a higher weight (and then of course there's the contention that he may have been sick at the time, but I won't go there). That's an unbelievable record.

I consider Zarate on par with guys like Pedroza and probably Nelson in an all time sense as well. I also think even the faded version that fought Lupe Pintor may very well have beaten a 122 pound Barrera.

 

Had we seen Barrera peak as a Super Bantamweight, I feel you may have changed your mind. The weight wasn't even an issue if you ask me, he peaked as a result of experience and learning, not because he moved up 4 pounds. The Barrera we saw fight Jesus Salud and Morales, in their first fight, he'd have been to hot to handle for a faded Zarate in my estimation.

Barrera's handspeed is often underrated - it was blazing fast during his best days. There is always the argument that if Zarate lands as often as Morales did, then there would be an inevitable knockout. I think the quickness and mobility of Morales allowed him to be as successful as he was in that fight, traits I don't think exist in a faded Carlos Zarate at 122lbs.

As for Junior Jones, I believe their first fight was a freak accident. It was business as usual for Marco until he got caught by the right hand he didn't see. Contrary to a lot of bull****, Marco wasn't knocked out - he got up and his corner man got him disqualified. For the rematch, Barrera controlled the first half of the fight - but he was to cautious to let his hands go which cost him the fight. Jones was never the fighter Barrera was, he landed a hard shot, and Barrera's confidence was staggered for their rematch.

 

I agree that Jones was never the fighter Barrera was, but he was a style that was difficult for him to master. I don't see Jones ever beating a fighter of Zarate's stature because I can't see him being deterred by his one-dimensional offense long enough to not land the bomb. I think Zarate would more often than not get him out of there within 5 or 6 rounds, perhaps a bit longer for the faded version I mentioned earlier.

As for Barrera and Zarate, I think the comparison with Zarate and Morales is valid, though not for the same reasons. Morales was no more efficient an offensive fighter at any stage than Zarate, but always more hittable. Zarate was a more powerful puncher and a better ring general than Morales ever was. Morales never mastered the art of spacing, which is often what led to him being so hittable, that and non-existent head movement. Zarate was not much of a head mover himself, but his sense of distance and well balanced guard made him less hittable, especially by shorter fighters he could use his height against. Morales was long and lanky himself, but he didn't fight tall. Zarate fought very tall, which presents more problems for Barrera when it comes to unleashing his combinations and getting into a full offensive flow. Morales was a tailor made matchup for Barrera to show his full repertoire against, the same doesn't apply for Zarate.

I agree that Barrera had some great tools, but I think most of them would be nullified by Zarate's strengths much moreso than they were against Morales.

 

Fair enough. I can't present to much of an argument on the account of not seeing enough of Zarate - but I rate Barrera higher than most do at 122lbs, and still feel that Carlos wouldn't have the quickness of hand and foot to live with a Barrera in full flow. The difference in speed would be severe I feel.

 

He was in no fit state to continue, that was a knockout for sure, his corner tried the same low move in the 1st Pacquiao fight but the ref beat them to it.... oh yes, its true.

:good

 

Marco got up to his feet, and was knocked down again on the sound of the bell. He would have had a full minute to recover. It wasn't a knockout, Bill.

Likewise, Barrera went through everything against Manny and wasn't knocked out. The corner men stopped the fight. live with it, these are facts.

 

Junior Jones knocked him out, you are the only one Ive ever heard try to use the bull**** DQ as a way out of that one, seriously.

Also... go watch the Pac-MAB 1st fight again, the ref stopped it, the corner TRIED to do the same thing again but they were too late & no way Barrera sees the final bell if the ref & corner kept out of it, he was in lala land, he wanted out of the fight as early as round 7, the doctor let him go on after he checked the cut & Barrera said in Spanish `I cant fight like this`.... he accepted defeat then & there mentally, he didnt want to do a Duran but he was not a happy chappy when that docter told him he was fine to continue.

Jones & Pacquiao knocked him out, fact.

:good

 

...He wasn't "knocked out". This isn't debtable, it's fact. He was stopped on his feet on both occasions. Stop wasting your energy, it's all on film - facts.

atsch

 

Marco was stopped on his feet - both times. Not opinion, fact!

Stop being an idiot. I'm not saying Barrera would have seen the 12th in both, I'm saying he was not knocked out cold, he wasn't unable to answer a 10 count - his corner men came in both times and stopped the fight. He wasn't knocked out, he was stopped...on his feet...both times.

Morales on the other hand, if you want to be an idiot Bill, was on the floor...for 10 seconds.

 

Morales has nothing to do with Barrera being knocked out in his prime, he wouldnt know jack about that sorta **** so we`ll leave him outta this.

Also... the REFEREE stopped the Pac fight, you should know this as FACT being a big Barrera fan, Addie.

I never said he took a 10 count or was out cold but he was `technically knocked out` on both occassions (despite what the Jones fight says on paper, I wipe my ass with that sorta paper tbh mate, it means ****)

You are acting like a hugger by trying to deny this reality, Addie.

 

Barrera was stopped on his feet in both fights. Do you want video evidence as proof, because if you keep talking **** I'll have to do it.

 

Whats the matter with you today ? :huh

Read my post properly, I never said he took a 10 count, I said he was `technically knocked out`.... its known as a TKO, its still a knockout because he was getting an ass beating, he lost & never heard the final bell.

This aint hard, Addie.

 

Forget it. Barrera was never knocked out. Meaning either taking a 10 count or losing consciousness. It never happened.

 

i agree

but the fight with Junior Jone s he was definitly badly hurt and perhaps if that wasnt at the end of teh round he could ahve been stopped. However it was a DQ and not a KO/TKO

The rematch i thought Jones won by the points because of the point deduction so again Jones stil beat Barrera twice

 

Absolutely. Barrera was never down and out, ever. He was being pummeled by Pacquiao, and the stoppage was the right thing to do, but nobody Marco ever faced in his 20+ year career had the firepower and ability to stop his clock. Barrera would always get up, and he'd never quit on his stool. When people say, "Jones sparked Barrera", they obviously didn't watch the fight.