Eubank Sr: Greatest MW ever is James Toney

Bulldog24 · Apr 24, 2020

Mitch87 said: ↑

I'd recently watched a lot Eubank fights.

vs Watson 1 - I had Eubank winning 115-113.

Vs Close in both fights I had Eubank edging both.

I had Eubank drawing 114-114 with Rocchigiani in a fight with a lot of tough scoring rounds.

Vs Benn 2 - I had Benn winning by a point.

Vs Schommer - I had Schommer winning
117-113.
Click to expand...

That looks about right. Had him beating Rocchi though by one point though and Watson by three. I had Schommer winning 9-3.

Bulldog24 · Apr 24, 2020

DrederickTatum said: ↑

I mean Munguia is at 160 now, he looks like he could be destined for great things and he will shake up the division a bit, but I don't think we'll see a middleweight division as stacked as the 90s for a good few years.
Click to expand...

Even guys who DIDN'T win a title like Herol Graham, Michael Watson and Lamar Parks were SUPERB talents, and Michael Olajide, Tim Littles and dudes like that. It was ridiculous. Hideous.

Bulldog24 · Apr 24, 2020

This content is protected

DrederickTatum · Apr 24, 2020

Bulldog24 said: ↑

Even guys who DIDN'T win a title like Herol Graham, Michael Watson and Lamar Parks were SUPERB talents, and Michael Olajide, Tim Littles and dudes like that. It was ridiculous. Hideous.
Click to expand...

Herol Graham is the shining example of how stacked the division was, a guy as technically sublime as that has no right being just another contender.

Bulldog24 · Apr 24, 2020

Oh Graham was unbelievable. He made Lindell Holmes, Ayub Kalule, Mike McCallum and Julian Jackson look like amateurs, novices for the first four rounds. All very, very good world champions or great fighters (Holmes was avoided by the Fab Four like the plague). Kalule gave a peak Leonard a much tougher time.

I thought he was robbed in the Kalambay rematch, and drew with with the master McCallum (won without point taken, on my card). He was #1 contender to Hearns in 83 and Tommy wanted none of that after seeing tapes.

DrederickTatum · Apr 24, 2020

Bulldog24 said: ↑

Oh Graham was unbelievable. He made Lindell Holmes, Ayub Kalule, Mike McCallum and Julian Jackson look like amateurs, novices for the first four rounds. All very, very good world champions or great fighters (Holmes was avoided by the Fab Four like the plague). Kalule gave a peak Leonard a much tougher time.

I thought he was robbed in the Kalambay rematch, and drew with with the master McCallum (won without point taken, on my card). He was #1 contender to Hearns in 83 and Tommy wanted none of that after seeing tapes.
Click to expand...

Well said.

mark ant · Apr 24, 2020

Bulldog24 said: ↑

Who was your best title challenger during your super middleweight reign?

CE: I would say Dan Schommer. Well, I led off you see due to believing he was an easy nights work based on his appearance, which fooled me – I mean, he didn’t even look like a fighter – yet he countered me and picked up the rounds, and so I had to continue leading off because I’m now chasing the fight.

He was always just slightly out of range, which was usually my forte. He had fast hands, he hit hard, and he was southpaw. And he could take a punch. Had it been a non-title fight or had he been the champion, he’d of got the decision.

I won because I was more aggressive than him and because I was the champion.

Another very good boxer was Ray Close. Light hands and light feet always bothered me because I was too correct for my own good – I had to set myself to pivot to punch, due to OCD, and so I could be outboxed.

However, when Ray was on my chest on the ropes late on in Glasgow, that uppercut inside was so correct that it couldn’t of traveled more than three inches, and so dropped him very heavily.

The very best mechanics were the late Tony Thornton and Lindell Holmes – I wasn’t gifted enough in technique to do what they did. They were better than me!

For instance, Thornton could pull his shots back mid-flight when he felt they wouldn’t land – I couldn’t do this, very few fighters are that skilled.

Lindell Holmes wouldn’t just catch your punches, he would actually deflect them in another direction which meant it took longer for you to pull it back into place.

It was like Mr Thornton and Lindell were a level above me in mechanical skill, but they couldn’t move their feet as well as I could. Nobody could. When I shadow boxed for 12 rounds, seven days a week, I always used my feet as well as my fists.

So the truth is, I just outworked everyone. Not in the ring, in the gym.

Readers will be amazed you didn’t mention Nigel Benn, Graciano Rocchigiani or Steve Collins!

CE: These are what you call strong fighters, great fighters. Yeah. Strong, great. Intangibles…. Intangibles, Google it.

Well, Steve Collins actually had no talent whatsoever. The 20 challengers for the title before him were better than Collins.

The first one (loss) doesn’t count because he got in my head. But the second fight, he beat me fair and square and he beat me the only way he could – fight like you should be in a padded cell. That’s it. Fight like you should be in a padded cell.

To his credit, he fractured my ribs in maybe the first minute of that second fight and this affected my breathing throughout, and he charged at me nonstop for 12 rounds basically – with zero technical skill, which made him impossible to read or time.

You come out of retirement and you face Joe Calzaghe for the vacant title, what were your thoughts going into that?

CE: Well I wasn’t training for Calzaghe, I was training for a light-heavyweight fight. Steve Collins decided to duck Joe, the mandatory challenger – something I would never of done as world champion – and so I stepped in to save the day.

Based on appearance and resume, I thought he wouldn’t be much problem. Maybe for a few rounds, being a southpaw. My mind was changed in 15 seconds! I was on my back for the first time in my entire life!

READ: An Evening With Joe Calzaghe Saturday October 8th
This was a serious, serious fighter, I am thinking. And in my mind I am thinking I’m probably not going to get a look-in now until the championship rounds because he is coming at me with blistering combinations, I haven’t had southpaw sparring and I can’t actually move much because my knees are so bad they’re requiring cortisol.

In the dying seconds of the fight, I finally have him going but he holds on for the bell.

You closed your career with heroic performances against Carl Thompson at cruiserweight, rocking him many times in two close fights despite a swelled eye for most of the fights.

Who do you rank as the best you fought in your glittering 52-fight career?

CE: Benn was the best puncher by a long way, Schommer was the best boxer-puncher, Collins in the rematch was the only guy to officially beat me fair and square in my prime, Joe Calzaghe had the fastest hands by a long way, but the only fighter to ever beat me up and break me down was Michael Watson in our second fight.

In three months, Michael became three times the fighter he was first time around and I don’t know how. It was almost supernatural, and driven by a certain hate, which was a lot darker and deeper than the hate Nigel had for me.

He took everything and kept coming. I believe truth caused almost a divine intervention as that was all that could stop him, but truth was required.

Do you regret not facing Roy Jones or James Toney?

CE: James Toney is the greatest middleweight in history, and one of the greatest fighters in history, period. Roy Jones, on a head to head basis, is arguably the best fighter we’ll ever see.

Put it this way – I would be walking around on my heels now had I taken those fights. You would be fighting for your life against these men, as they would against me.

That’s a huge statement regarding Toney! Care to elaborate?

CE: Michael Nunn was the pound-for-pound best fighter at the time. He was like a taller, more active, more conventional Herol Graham and with this sublime natural ability. Nobody made it look as easy as Nunn, not even my man Pernell Whitaker. James Toney came from behind and knocked Nunn out in Nunn’s hometown.

You don’t see slick fighters today like these southpaws and the other one was this Reggie Johnson. Toney got off the canvas in the first round and actually won the fight on points. Then he drew with the legendary McCallum. He’s what, 21, 22? This is all in six months.

I used to watch these bouts live in Romford with the Matchroom boys who lived in a house together there, but thanks to YouTube and Boxrec you can go back and see just how great this was.

He rematched McCallum and beat the man. McCallum was a man that was avoided by the Fabulous Four of the eighties in Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran and the amazing Thomas Hearns.

James Toney would’ve fought anyone. Even Iran Barkley, who was from South Bronx, and would not stop coming if you had actual bricks in your gloves and (if) he had no arms. Even Roy Jones. Even heavyweights, even cruiserweights. I was begrudgingly very proud of him!

You can’t beat speed and Roy Jones had more of it than any fighter I’ve ever laid eyes on. His unconventional punching ability was off the page. Interestingly, Roy said he felt the only fighter who would’ve troubled him was me.

I stand by those statements.
Click to expand...

A lot of what he says here is logical but Nunn was not considered P4P the top guy by 1990 after his split decision wins over Starling and Barkley, Chavez was the main man by then:
As selected by The Ring magazine in the April 1991 issue.

Pound For Pound

Julio Cesar Chavez

Pernell Whitaker

Michael Nunn

Antonio Esparragoza

Meldrick Taylor

Evander Holyfield

Mike Tyson

Raul Perez

Myung-Woo Yuh

Khaosai Galaxy

Bulldog24 · Apr 24, 2020

mark ant said: ↑

A lot of what he says here is logical but Nunn was not considered P4P the top guy by 1990 after his split decision wins over Starling and Barkley, Chavez was the main man by then:
As selected by The Ring magazine in the April 1991 issue.

Pound For Pound

Julio Cesar Chavez

Pernell Whitaker

Michael Nunn

Antonio Esparragoza

Meldrick Taylor

Evander Holyfield

Mike Tyson

Raul Perez

Myung-Woo Yuh

Khaosai Galaxy

Click to expand...

All subjective nonsense.

mark ant · Apr 24, 2020

DrederickTatum said: ↑

Well said.
Click to expand...

Graham didn`t land much on McCalum in the first four rounds of their clash because of his excessive movement he also struggled with Mike`s superior counter punching.

Bulldog24 · Apr 24, 2020

mark ant said: ↑

Graham didn`t land much on McCalum in the first four rounds of their clash because of his excessive movement he also struggled with Mike`s superior counter punching.
Click to expand...

He landed enough to win the rounds and make one of the best ever look a bit ****ing silly in there!!

Somali Sanil · Apr 24, 2020

Bulldog24 said: ↑

Who was your best title challenger during your super middleweight reign?

CE: I would say Dan Schommer. Well, I led off you see due to believing he was an easy nights work based on his appearance, which fooled me – I mean, he didn’t even look like a fighter – yet he countered me and picked up the rounds, and so I had to continue leading off because I’m now chasing the fight.

He was always just slightly out of range, which was usually my forte. He had fast hands, he hit hard, and he was southpaw. And he could take a punch. Had it been a non-title fight or had he been the champion, he’d of got the decision.

I won because I was more aggressive than him and because I was the champion.

Another very good boxer was Ray Close. Light hands and light feet always bothered me because I was too correct for my own good – I had to set myself to pivot to punch, due to OCD, and so I could be outboxed.

However, when Ray was on my chest on the ropes late on in Glasgow, that uppercut inside was so correct that it couldn’t of traveled more than three inches, and so dropped him very heavily.

The very best mechanics were the late Tony Thornton and Lindell Holmes – I wasn’t gifted enough in technique to do what they did. They were better than me!

For instance, Thornton could pull his shots back mid-flight when he felt they wouldn’t land – I couldn’t do this, very few fighters are that skilled.

Lindell Holmes wouldn’t just catch your punches, he would actually deflect them in another direction which meant it took longer for you to pull it back into place.

It was like Mr Thornton and Lindell were a level above me in mechanical skill, but they couldn’t move their feet as well as I could. Nobody could. When I shadow boxed for 12 rounds, seven days a week, I always used my feet as well as my fists.

So the truth is, I just outworked everyone. Not in the ring, in the gym.

Readers will be amazed you didn’t mention Nigel Benn, Graciano Rocchigiani or Steve Collins!

CE: These are what you call strong fighters, great fighters. Yeah. Strong, great. Intangibles…. Intangibles, Google it.

Well, Steve Collins actually had no talent whatsoever. The 20 challengers for the title before him were better than Collins.

The first one (loss) doesn’t count because he got in my head. But the second fight, he beat me fair and square and he beat me the only way he could – fight like you should be in a padded cell. That’s it. Fight like you should be in a padded cell.

To his credit, he fractured my ribs in maybe the first minute of that second fight and this affected my breathing throughout, and he charged at me nonstop for 12 rounds basically – with zero technical skill, which made him impossible to read or time.

You come out of retirement and you face Joe Calzaghe for the vacant title, what were your thoughts going into that?

CE: Well I wasn’t training for Calzaghe, I was training for a light-heavyweight fight. Steve Collins decided to duck Joe, the mandatory challenger – something I would never of done as world champion – and so I stepped in to save the day.

Based on appearance and resume, I thought he wouldn’t be much problem. Maybe for a few rounds, being a southpaw. My mind was changed in 15 seconds! I was on my back for the first time in my entire life!

READ: An Evening With Joe Calzaghe Saturday October 8th
This was a serious, serious fighter, I am thinking. And in my mind I am thinking I’m probably not going to get a look-in now until the championship rounds because he is coming at me with blistering combinations, I haven’t had southpaw sparring and I can’t actually move much because my knees are so bad they’re requiring cortisol.

In the dying seconds of the fight, I finally have him going but he holds on for the bell.

You closed your career with heroic performances against Carl Thompson at cruiserweight, rocking him many times in two close fights despite a swelled eye for most of the fights.

Who do you rank as the best you fought in your glittering 52-fight career?

CE: Benn was the best puncher by a long way, Schommer was the best boxer-puncher, Collins in the rematch was the only guy to officially beat me fair and square in my prime, Joe Calzaghe had the fastest hands by a long way, but the only fighter to ever beat me up and break me down was Michael Watson in our second fight.

In three months, Michael became three times the fighter he was first time around and I don’t know how. It was almost supernatural, and driven by a certain hate, which was a lot darker and deeper than the hate Nigel had for me.

He took everything and kept coming. I believe truth caused almost a divine intervention as that was all that could stop him, but truth was required.

Do you regret not facing Roy Jones or James Toney?

CE: James Toney is the greatest middleweight in history, and one of the greatest fighters in history, period. Roy Jones, on a head to head basis, is arguably the best fighter we’ll ever see.

Put it this way – I would be walking around on my heels now had I taken those fights. You would be fighting for your life against these men, as they would against me.

That’s a huge statement regarding Toney! Care to elaborate?

CE: Michael Nunn was the pound-for-pound best fighter at the time. He was like a taller, more active, more conventional Herol Graham and with this sublime natural ability. Nobody made it look as easy as Nunn, not even my man Pernell Whitaker. James Toney came from behind and knocked Nunn out in Nunn’s hometown.

You don’t see slick fighters today like these southpaws and the other one was this Reggie Johnson. Toney got off the canvas in the first round and actually won the fight on points. Then he drew with the legendary McCallum. He’s what, 21, 22? This is all in six months.

I used to watch these bouts live in Romford with the Matchroom boys who lived in a house together there, but thanks to YouTube and Boxrec you can go back and see just how great this was.

He rematched McCallum and beat the man. McCallum was a man that was avoided by the Fabulous Four of the eighties in Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran and the amazing Thomas Hearns.

James Toney would’ve fought anyone. Even Iran Barkley, who was from South Bronx, and would not stop coming if you had actual bricks in your gloves and (if) he had no arms. Even Roy Jones. Even heavyweights, even cruiserweights. I was begrudgingly very proud of him!

You can’t beat speed and Roy Jones had more of it than any fighter I’ve ever laid eyes on. His unconventional punching ability was off the page. Interestingly, Roy said he felt the only fighter who would’ve troubled him was me.

I stand by those statements.
Click to expand...

Is he hinting Watson was on something for the return, "He changed so much in 3 months, I don't know how" ??

Bulldog24 · Apr 24, 2020

Somali Sanil said: ↑

Is he hinting Watson was on something for the return, "He changed so much in 3 months, I don't know how" ??
Click to expand...

Of course not.

He did fight out of his skin though, Watson, that tragic night at White Hart Lane.

mark ant · Apr 24, 2020

Bulldog24 said: ↑

All subjective nonsense.
Click to expand...

What did you get banned for?

mark ant · Apr 24, 2020

Bulldog24 said: ↑

And to Calzaghe, this is how you'd actually turn knuckles over when punching:

This content is protected

Eubank at start in vest
Click to expand...

Calzaghe was more skilled than a prime Eubank and threw more combo`s.

Bulldog24 · Apr 24, 2020

mark ant said: ↑

What did you get banned for?
Click to expand...

Stay out of my threads please Troll.

Log in or Sign up

Eubank Sr: Greatest MW ever is James Toney

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

DrederickTatum We really outchere. Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

DrederickTatum We really outchere. Full Member

mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man banned Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

Log in or Sign up

Forums

Eubank Sr: Greatest MW ever is James Toney

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

DrederickTatum We really outchere. Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

DrederickTatum We really outchere. Full Member

mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man banned Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member