European fighters aren't 'ducked'...unless they want to be

Eventually you'll have to let go of this old perspective. Times are changing in boxing, there are at least as many if not more good Europeans.

 

Agreed 100%.

 

It depends entirely on the situation.

The only thing which matters is money. Assuming a guy is a huge draw in Europe/America, why should they do less business abroad? Jones could have made huge money in Europe agai at Michalczewski but didn't fight him out of principle. Business wise, the fight made more sense in Europe, so Jones should have accepted it.

So it depends on who is the draw and who canmake the most money.

The problem is, most guys can't make money in America. Even Winky made more money over here, than he did in America, because there is more demand for boxing.

To just assume that European fighters should always make an effort to fight in America is being ignorant of the times, because there isn't the same money or appetite for boxing over there any more. Assuming the MLB lost it's popularity, would it make sense for the best players to stay there or play in Japan? You can only hold on to history for so long. It may be time for nostalgic Americans to accept the game has changed.

 

You make it sound as if boxing revolves around the US. :roll:

 

Some excellent points. But, although it may not be as big a pool as it used to be, it is still the biggest pool on the block. I also think that it may not be necessary to come to the US to prove oneself, but it is still almost impossible to build up a top resume without going thru US fighters, which still make up a significant portion of the higher ranks of the sport.

 

I agree about US fighters. Though not nessecarily because they are better fighters, but simply because most important boxing media is American based, and the US based fighters tend to get overrated, so even though a guy like Rahman was no better than, say, Dimitrenko, it's a more notable scalp.

Interestingly, De La Hoya wanted Hatton at Wembley, despite DLH being America's biggest draw since Tyson. I think that is quite symbolic of the times changing. It's also indicative of De La Hoya having a better businessbrain than guys like Jones or Hopkins or Pavlik, who opted to stay in America, rather than make more money abroad.

 

I understand what you are saying. And it makes sense to get the highest gates. But, hell, they could hold it in space and televise it and they would make a killing. It sucks for us as fans that so much of the sport is dictated by the money involved. We lose out on alot.

To me, it's all about name recognition as opposed Americans being overrated. Example, if Ricky Hatton had come calling for Shane Mosley last year do you think he would have signed to fight him or Andre Berto? Also, there are a lot more US based fighters. So, if a guy's resume doesn't have some on there, it seems to be by design.

Its funny, but we Americans say the same about many of the British being overrated. But it is also applies to our own as well. I don't think there is a more villified fighter in America than Floyd Mayweather, yet it is clear he is supremely talented and has beaten some top names. It's not the names he gets criticized for, its the level of opposition.

Bottom line, the guys who prove themselves against the best in the world should not be overrated by anyone, regardless of demographic.

 

The USA do have an attitude or belief , some might say arrogance that the world revolves around them. That is not just in boxing that is in general. It is why the rest of the world either laughs at them or worse. America World Police was very accurate to all but the Americans. It did used to be the case in the past that a fighter needed to go to the States to prove himself, because the best fighters were there, the best money too. But even when the best fighters are not there, or the best money, the Americans are extremely reluctant to fight abroad. They want all the advantages, the ref, the judges, the crowd. Mosley, Hopkins and Mayweather all refuse to defend abroad. De LA Hoya i think defended abroad once. European fighters regularly win and defend titles abroad. Haye won both his titles abroad. Calzaghe defended abroad and also challenged the yanks in the states.

The comment that the guy said about 'soccer', its actually football, and players do have to leave the states to play top flight. They go to many countries in Europe and South America. No sole country thinks to prove themselves a player should go there.

The same applies to cricket or rugby.

Boxing is the only world sport the USA seriously competes at, so comparisons to other sports don't work.

But back to boxing , the heavyweight title is European now and will be for a significant length of time. Your stars are old, and many of them have dubious performance enhancing drug histories behind them. You are not the centre of the real world, or even the boxing world. Get used to it. On both counts.

 

I think it's more about economics and markets.

The US is the largest centralized market for boxing right now, and has been for a while. The key word here is 'centralized', though.

Because of the disaggregated nature of Europe, it's usually in the best financial interests of a fighter from the UK, or Denmark, to go to the US in order to expose themselves to that market.

Boxers like Vitali or Wlad have sort-of reached a level where they don't have to do that, though. They get big enough paydays in Europe to make the trip to the US less worthwhile, and if the fights are big enough, the US TV networks will come to them, so they get the exposure without having to make the trip.

The question is more about "How do you get to that level to begin with?". You can either be very good and hope that your talent levels and competition bring you natural exposure in the US regardless of your location, or you have to go to the US to show your talents in order to get to the level where you can do what you like.

I often think that Calzaghe would have got a lot more props from Americans if he'd simply taken the Lacy fight in the US. Then, when he fought Kessler in Cardiff, the US market would naturally have been more interested because he'd already been displayed in their shop window and they'd already have a greater familiarity with what he was like.

So, in short, no -- it's not necessary to go the US, but it sure does help if what you're concerned about is maximizing your payday and maximizing your legacy in the market that has, financially, the greatest centralized appetite for boxing.

 

Your agenda is a little too obvious.

Rather than defend America against those who like to rail against it, I will simply say...... If we are so this or that, and have so little to be proud of, why do you fixate?

Many Americans do not think the world revolves around America, many, in error, do. I do believe the same can be said for a lot of people, regardless of nationality. It's called perspective, and everyone has it. Everyone. Some have a better perspective than others.

As for boxing being the only sport America seriously competes at, I have one simple word.......... Olympics.

 

Very well said. Terrific post.

 

The Olympics is not a sport , so rethink your one word. I also said 'World' sport, meaning a sport the whole world competes at, not an event where the whole world competes at sport.

When i respond to the original poster, who is making incredibly insular comments, why is it i who is fixated and not he ? Of course because as you have just demonstrated Yanks ( not all obviously ) think the world revolves around them.

It is not called perspective either, its called arrogance, perspective is something citizens of the USA are sorely lacking. Perspective should allow you to see all sides not just one side.

 

But please go back to my first post and show me where you think i am wrong in what i have said.

 

Once is was true boxing revolved around the US. One of the biggest reasons was that there were a lot of getto's where you had to fight to survive and talent quickly surfaced and a few could make it big.
In Africa not a lot of talents because of malnutricion and lack of competitions due to wars, lack of money and infrastructure.
In Europe half the continent was communistic and did not fight professional, rest of Europe only few took the road in sports -and then mainly soccer- because of a reasonably good economy and better (not perfect) sharing of the wealth.
Asia has naturally smaller people, so less chances in the bigger weightclasses... they have had a lot of talent in the past, but in bantam, flyweight, featherweight and so on. The bigger weights have always been more popular and appriciated.

Now that America changed a lot, people have more chances and you can actually make a lot more money in other sports with less danger for your health, it's normal that the pool dry's up a bit.
If you look at what a big athletic guy can make in the NFL nowadays even if he's a benchwarmer at one of the lesser teams and then look what he has to accomplish in boxing to make the same kind of cash, you might understand that the US is losing his middlepoint position.
Europe now has all the former communistic countries attached to their talentpool and there are quite a lot not so rich countries in there, with big strong guys. Hence the takeover of the Heavier weights.
Africa is still a weak boxingcontinent BUT a lot of those men are going towards Europe or the US and with their muscular advantages there are some who make it.
Asia's people are starting to get a bit bigger... so heavier weights... so more exposure. And they are making big dents in the boxing world.
Till conclusion South America... Haven't changed too much it seems... less Mexicans, but the gap seems to be filled with Puerto Ricans and so on...

So the boxing world is shifting, the states are still one of the biggest talentpools but for sure Europe is just as big right now, and the rest is catching up. It's quite egocentric for an American to believe otherwise.
I've read a lot of posts here of Americans who hype their countrymen after a fight and then bash someone from another country who did just the same in the next. And of course it happens the other way around, but apperantly not as much!

Pfew! That was a lot of text, will anyone care to read this at all? :think

 

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