Eusebio Pedroza vs Vicente Saldivar

Fantasy fights are something that I don't really bother with anymore but believe it or not Vic, I was wondering about this one just the other day. It probably would've been something of a barnburner and a superb clash of styles with the added potential of being one of the greatest of all featherweight stand-offs. The more I think about it, however, the more inclined I am to take Saldivar of the Laguna/Ramos/Robertson/Winstone fights over Pedroza of the Ford/LaPorte fights. In a proper war with a lot of variables, mind. It's just that I can see Saldivar having an answer for almost everything that Pedroza does a bit more often than vice-versa.

Pedroza was slick, mobile and stylish with a good defence, but so were the likes of Legra, Famechon, Luis and fellow Panamanian Laguna. His physicality and bolo punches to the body at mid to inside range would be considerable weapons for him against a short man, as would the uppercut and his dirty tactics when the going got rough (as it most likely would), but Saldivar was a brutal body puncher himself while often being able to block and negate a fair whack of any return fire. The way he was able to bodily dominate and dismantle a physical monstronsity like Ramos was really impressive, and Pedroza didn't have Ramos' punching power even if he was more underhanded and wily. If Saldivar was able to mug Pedroza early, stand his ground and hit him hard as LaPorte did in the early going, it would probably mark the start of the less palatable stuff on Pedroza's part.

And this is the key here for me, cos if Saldivar handles this as I think he would without becoming discouraged, it might mark a gradual tilting of the scales that culminates in the championship rounds when Saldivar hits top gear with the right hooks and straight left through the eye of the needle working overtime (even against Pedroza's slippery head movement). Pedroza's own fire, workrate and stamina would have a considerable say of their own, not to mention to his versatility, which brings up another point: that Saldivar would be equally comfortable fighting either head on or having to cut off the ring as he did against Laguna, Famechon, Winstone etc when Pedroza decides to alter tack. And like the aforementioned trio, he didn't have the massive one shot power to keep Saldivar on the outside for the full 15 even he didn't more likely declare war.

Saldivar over Pedroza by points or late stoppage in a blitzkrieg that perhaps shortens the careers of both of them.

 

This would have been one hell of a fight.

 

Interestingly, Christofides1 has put up Vicente Saldivar vs Baby Luis I. I think Luis has some stylistic similarities to Pedroza.
I think the kind of guys who could beat Pedroza (and I personally don't think there are many), are hard ass guys who could operate in the pocket, with sound technique, and throw compact shots and would be impervious to Pedroza's bullying tactics (Sanchez and Saldivar come to mind).
I really think this fight would run close though. I'm leaning toward Saldivar but maybe want to check out this baby Luis footage before givinh a definite opinion.

PS, great summary Tin!

 

Oops, here's Christofides channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Christofides1

 

Luis seems a notable underachiever considering the talent he looked to have.I wonder what his story was outside the ring.

His fight with Winstone(also on youtube) has some god-like boxing in it.

 

Thanks mate, I'll give this another watch. Luis was some talent when he was at the races but seemingly a big underachiever as lora said. Such a fine line between acclaim/success and failure in this game.....

I might give Winstone-Luis another watch too, haven't seen it for quite some time and the level of skill on display is wonderful to behold at times.

* Luis is similar in many ways to Pedroza, good observation there.

 

Luis had none of the nastiness or grit that Pedroza had, and he at least held his own against Saldivar (albeit a pre-prime version) in that fight. He even knocked him down with a right hand in the second (and wobbled him noticeably in the 6th). In fact, that's one thing people might overlook about Saldivar. He was durable, but not iron-chinned by any means. He's not the kind of guy that could eat consistent flush shots from solid punchers and just walk through them. Then again that was probably part of the reason he became so disciplined early on in fights, relying on taking the wind out of their sails before going into over-kill mode.

I think this would be a very close fight, and some rough tactics are sure to come about on Pedroza's behalf. It would likely be very difficult to score/analyse properly as a result. I wouldn't rule out a Pedroza win by any means, though. In fact I just might be the one to favor him.

 

It's a good channel isn't it? I saw the Cokes-Stable thread on here a while ago, might get around to watching that one soon....

Btw Vic, I agree with what said about Pedroza needing to avoid letting Saldivar take the lead and force him back. It might mean a fair share of hell having to continually take the fight to Saldivar, but it's probably better than backtracking too much and allowing Saldivar to gather up a head of steam.

Right, I'm off for a little while to finish watching Saldivar-Luis I.

 

By the way, anyone know why Saldivar was DQ'd against Luis? It looks like the ref just decided to stop the fight and award it to Luis as they were about to enter center ring for round 7. Odd.

 

It's true that Luis looked to have less of the dog in him than Pedroza (perhaps one of the reasons why he is little more than a historical footnote to most whereas Pedroza became one of the great champions) but it's more the aesthetic similarities that are a bit more apparent, though Pedroza had a better bolo/uppercut. That was a big shot that Saldivar swallowed in the second and it caught him bang on the spot when he was uncharacteristically lunging, open and unsighted - and he recovered fairly quickly despite looking hurt. He obviously wasn't undentable but his discipline, compactness and defensive ability usually meant that it didn't matter much (though I know that's not what you were saying). Much like Pedroza was occasionally hurtable himself though much harder to hit consistently, outfight or finish off.
That 6th round was brilliant with Saldivar towing at first and then coming raging back at the end and gaining the upperhand.

I was wondering the same thing and I've never found anything up to press that explains why Saldivar was actually disqualified. :huh:think

 

Yeah nice channel. You might want to drop that guy a note Vic. I seem to recall him saying something about having extended Jofre footage (beyond what's readily available).

 

p.s. I find Pedroza's title reign (and prime) similar to Hagler's chronologically. Long reigns. If you catch fights from the tail end of their reign, there are definitely some dents in the armor. From late 70's to maybe '82, both of these guys were all-time tough outs. The '81 Patrick Ford fight for me is Pedroza's high water mark. He also looks brilliant against the shell that was Olivares in '79. After '82, he fought some fringe guys, seemed to slip a little, and maybe lost some interest. I know he got in to politics around that time frame. Head to head beast from '79-'82.