Evaluate the following statement on Canelo

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by demigawd, Mar 6, 2011.


  1. demigawd

    demigawd Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The following statement was made about Saul Alvarez in a recent interview. What do you make of it?

    Q: What do you make of Canelo's chance of becoming a great fighter

    A: Not much, to be honest with you.

    Q: That's quite surprising to hear.

    A: It's surprising for me to say it, but the past couple of weeks have really solidified it for me.

    Q: Because of his performance against Hatton?

    A: Oh no, way before then. See, I was always under the impression that he was a welterweight. As a welterweight, he could become dominant because he's got all the attributes to become a strong welter. But he's 20 years old and grew out of the division already. That's a big problem.

    Q: The jr. Middleweight division isn't considered a particularly strong division. What would the issue be?

    A: It's not an issue of division quality, because division strength rises and falls like the tide. It's a structural issue. See if you can follow my line of reasoning here.

    Q: OK

    A: Canelo is listed at 5'9", though he's actually closer to 5'8". As a welterweight that would be a fine height. Problem is he isn't really a welterweight. I'm not even sure he's really a jr. Middleweight. At 20 years old, he can expect to put on 10 pounds of muscle over the course of his prime. That almost guarantees that his defining career years will have to be at middleweight or even super middleweight. I can't see a 5'9" fighter with his fighting style really finding greatness at middleweight, to be completely honest. Shorter fighters can find success if they're movers, extremely fast, or are tank-like power punchers. Alvarez is none of those things. I predict he'll struggle against any master boxer with a significant reach advantage, which is pretty much the prototype olympian middleweight. He's simply built wrong with the wrong overall genetic blessings to become a truly great fighter. You can't be a center at 6'4", no matter how high you can jump. You can't be a running back at 300lbs, no matter how much you can bench. And you can't be a come forward, slugging 5'9" hall of fame middleweight. The best thing they can do is keep him feasting on the elder statesmen and former Pacquiao victims at 154 for as long as possible to get some kind of legacy going, and then when he can't make 154 anymore to get him a paper title or two at middleweight and cash out against whoever the lineal champion is, because his journey will end there. And I say that as a big fan of his. You can't just deny science.
     
  2. Gonzarelli

    Gonzarelli Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  3. unloco

    unloco Boxing Addict banned

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    interview with who ,


    good read though:deal
     
  4. E30

    E30 Member Full Member

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    This is absolutely correct.

    This is Victor Ortiz all over again. Except Ortiz actually had the physical tools to be a very good fighter, just lacked devotion.

    He is simply too heavy with not enough height, reach, or speed. He has decent skills, but nothing above average.

    The ONLY thing going for him is his young age and red hair. That's it.

    He gets hit way too often by fighters who aren't known for skill.

    Cotto's younger brother? Antique Baldomir? M. Hatton?

    GBP has as much confidence in his skills as I do.
     
  5. darryl1914

    darryl1914 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Been There SAID THAT well over a year ago About Alvarez (but I can't search back that far to find the thread) and then I recently said it again about two weeks ago posting on someone's thread about Alvarez.

    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291618&page=2

     
  6. timmyjames

    timmyjames PTurd curb stomper Full Member

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    yeah, i don't see him at 160 at all....if he can keep himself at 154 he can do ok, but his height may be a problem...he does have a decent reach though


    the, he gets hit too often thing i dont buy into, as he may just be opening more on guys that he doesnt feel are particularly dangerous
     
  7. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    It's an interesting assessment of his physical attributes. Are we to assume that he is to stay this type of fighter forever though? His learning curve has to have space left for development and adaptation at 20, and with the type of attention he's getting, he should be able to get a quality trainer if the deficiencies aren't corrected and his team becomes too limiting.

    Now, I'm not exactly sold on Canelo, but we can't say his style and size don't match up when he's still a very basic boxer-puncher, can we?
     
  8. Boom_Boom

    Boom_Boom R.I.P Boxing 6/9/12 Full Member

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    I think its pretty much dead on. Also the fact he isnt that much skilled and other than maybe having some power isnt naturally gifted at all.

    Alvarez can fool the casual Mexican fan who doesnt know **** about boxing (over 60 million from what I heard) but he isnt fooling those who actually follow the sport.
     
  9. unloco

    unloco Boxing Addict banned

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    same can be said for paul williams
     
  10. Farmboxer

    Farmboxer VIP Member Full Member

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    Only time will tell. I would like to see him at 147, but he is only 20 years old. Has he been pushed to quickly? I think he will be matched easily for his next two fights, by then he will be even better.
     
  11. JMP

    JMP Champion Full Member

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    Agreed, but there's more to it than that...he's simply not very skilled. He's very basic and downright mediocre in a lot of areas. He has his strengths, but I don't ever see him becoming elite. He'll be a fan friendly fighter for a bit though.
     
  12. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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    I think he will be crafted into a superstar via match making, activity level, exposure, etc.

    I do think Alvarez is already a legit pro when talking about the top 125 active boxers. And I believe he will be great. 20 years old with a 36-0-1 record against good competition, namely Vazquez, Vazquez II, J Cotto, Baldomir, N'dou, Hatton. Lot of smaller guys in there, but a good resume nonetheless.
     
  13. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's a mistake to base a career-wise statement based on height and build. This is sweet science not growing competition for Chrissakes, and Canelo is just 20yo, still growing and still learning. He hasn't even grown out 147, the fight was supposed to be a 150lbs catchweight non-title fight and Alvarez was always going to return to WW with Senchenko planned for later this year. Two things happened that changed plans: his bro lost his belt at 54 so Saul set his sights on Trout, and the WBC awarded him the vacant belt so there's little chance of returning to 47 now with a unification possible, but I still wouldn't rule it out. He's physically capable to do so, he's more of a natural WW than a natural LMW.

    Never base your statements on height but on reach, and Canelo has a nice reach for a LMW and not bad for a MW either, plus he knows how to use it. "He'd struggle vs. a master boxer" - duh, who wouldn't? :lol: Also, "you can't be an 5'9" come forward slugging MW HOFer" - so now the standards for a prospect is the HOF? "He'd lose to the lineal world MW champion", who's P4P#3 Maravilla now and a sure P4P-er when and who beats him? Oh ****, Canelo is f'd!

    The most interesting fact is that outside of some Mexican/Mexican-American posters who followed his career no one seem to get into Alvarez's style and just categorize him as some sort of light punching Arthur Abraham. :nut The guy is an aggressive counter-puncher, he feints a lot, best at timing his punches and go for openings, of course he'll not look devestating when the opponent - say Hatton, Lovemore - won't open up for the counter left hook and therefore lose every round in surviving! Alvarez doesn't have a good lead left hook - he has a good lead right hand and a superb counter left hook that rocked Hatton and KTFO Baldomir. Put him in with a come forward puncher or boxer-puncher, and the bodies will fall.

    The anti-Alvarez style is Pacquiao's, an unpredictable fast-footed all-angles mover who's very hard to time and best cutting down and drown, but then again, how many of those are out there? I say reserve our judgement at least until he grows into an adult and decides where to fight. The only thing happened recently in his progress that the WBC awarding him a paper belt, and all of the sudden this 20yo prospect is a badly overrated come forward, protected, unimpressive MW who won't beat the lineal world MW champion and won't be a HOF?

    Duh?
     
  14. puertorricane

    puertorricane Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's exactly what his promoters are doing and going to keep doing. He wont face a dangerous fighter for a looooooooooong time but saying the obvious his fanatics say you're hating.

    :hat
     
  15. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Put the ginger in with David Lemeuix and lets see the end of him already.