Evaluation of Holmes v Tyson '88

Well i certainly never said Tyson beat the best version of Holmes. I said Holmes was "only a patch on his peak self" which i think would be a pretty fair appraisal.

He also fought on reasonably well for a long time. He was still "capable" even if miles past his best. He was fading in 83 and slow as molasses by the time he fought Spinks. He was one of these guys however that could soldier on for many years without seeming "shot" when others had long been at that career stage.

 

I'm not going to ignore the Douglas fight ,, his timing was shot to **** by Buster Douglas .. and there is no way around that... watch the fight again, the lead right and jab …. The best jab in History has no problem finding it's target while in Prime .. If Douglas could do it, It's no problem for Larry Holmes .. that was the thing with Tyson, at times he just couldn't deal with adversity, he would get frustrated he didn't have an answer

 

We can look at the Weaver fight and ask ourselves "What if a prime Tyson had been in with Holmes"? And Holmes was likely in better shape, physically and mentally for Weaver than Tyson was for Douglas.

 

No, he wasn't prime per se... But the guy who KO'd Lewis and the guys who beat Bowe and Ruddock and Morrison and Douglas never came close to doing to an older Holmes what Mike did to a younger Holmes.

 

Holmes KO'd Weaver. Douglas KO'd Tyson .. not following you here … If you are alluding to, which it seems like you, JT and maybe Seamus? is as well, that Larry Holmes was in better fighting condition at 38 years old, not fighting in almost 2 years, coming off 2 losses, than Mike Tyson was at 26 years old .. is an argument that hell would have to freeze over first before I would even consider it … That is just not how the human body works and even more so with athletes .. Your body is prime at 26 years old , and past it at 38 .. with very few exceptions to the rule

 

If Snipes could drop Holmes heavily and have him reeling into the turnbuckle how would he ever survive Tyson's right hand and furious finishing skills? If Mike Weaver forced Larry to dig way deep and hurt him how would he last vs Tyson?

One dimensional debate can be thrown around every which way.

 

Can you point out where i alluded to this? Or even remotely alluded to it?

It's pretty well accepted that Tyson was at a low point mentally for Douglas and had a woeful camp. Greg Page dropped him sparring among many other things. Now this is on Tyson but fixating on this fight as an example of how he would go in fantasy fights is a long way from the be all and end all.

I can't find anything wrong with my post per the thread topic -

 

What one dimensional debate?? He got up and KO'd Snipes … He got up and KO'd Shavers in one of the biggest gettin' up off the canvas shots in the history of Boxing, he KO'd Weaver as well ..You are picking apart Holmes for KO'ing all 3 guys??? how many times did Tyson get up from the canvas and win??

 

How many times did someone get off the canvas and stop Tyson?

The point is getting off the canvas against Snipes, Shavers and Weaver to win is light years away from doing it against a Tyson or Louis.

We are however drifting badly from the point of the thread.

The fact is as i said it was both a case of the young guy vs the old guy but it was also a most impressive performance by Tyson. I fail to see how anyone can dispute this.

Was this version of Holmes better than the one who beat Mercer with inactivy vs being younger thrown in? Maybe start a thread as it's been debated from both sides in here previously.

 

You're right .. I misinterpreted it

 

Fair enough JT … we are definitely on opposite ends of the spectrum here … I always respect your knowledge and posts mate … cheers

 

Ring rust and motivation was a factor in this fight. Holmes had looked jaded in his two defeats against Spinks, a couple of years, prior.

The persuasion of Don King ($$$) and the expectation he would not win (Larry himself didn’t consider he’d be able to, at that point) was enough to get him to play his part and turn up.

 

Hey all good i thought something was amiss.

 

Right back at you.

 

It's always interesting to see guys wearing other shoes. Holmes looked real real good being the young guy against old fighters like Norton and Shavers. Now we had a role reversal and it's his old reflexes taking on the young defeated up and comer. As so often happens, the old reflexes look just like that---old.

And lets face it, if Holmes really thought he didn't have time to prepare and so on--the excuses---did you ever hear him clamouring and demanding a Tyson rematch? Lots of crickets is what I heard and he wanted no part of a rematch with the guy.

I imagine Mike would have taken a rematch with an older Holmes at anytime and the result is similar.

And when it was Tyson't turn as the old guy, he fought contemporaries but not the youthful pedigreed up and comers. If he did, he'd have additional koby results.