Evan’The Roid Deal’Fields.How great was he?

I rate him about 2000 ng/dl. That's ATG level if you ask me.

 

Everyone from the 70s onwards used.

If not then from the 80s onwards it was undeniable.

Bruno, Weaver, BoneCrusher, Evander, Briggs, Tyson ect they look like action figures even guys who don't look like that used Fury, Frans Botha, Bob Hazelton, Povetkin, Toney.

 

Ronnie Coleman sneezed that out on a daily basis.

 

He's nothing compared to some of the powerful monsters that lay out there.

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He was better at it than his competitors, since he had better professional guidance.

I've seen the traditional entry point of "modern" training (including steroids) into heavyweight boxing being pegged at Spinks's first fight with Holmes, which acted as a proof of concept for modern methods. (Both legal and otherwise; I don't know whether Spinks himself was using, but it showed what scientific methods can accomplish, and steroids are part of that package.)

Steroids weren't particularly regulated or even illegal in the 80s, from what I've heard, so technically I'm not even sure that the early users were cheating.

Before Spinks/Holmes, I suspect boxing's innate conservatism and paranoia about new methods would have slowed the spread of banned substances.

 

I prefer more "regular" (though still freaky) guys like Larry Wheels, who openly admit his usage and even makes videos detailing their safest use.

I think...as much as I love Holy, I wish he'd just admit it and maybe try to help people whom are thinking about experimenting. We know most of those guys used them, so I'm not sure why he just has to pretend he didn't.

But I feel Holy, Tyson, Foreman, etc would have been great with or without.

 

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This is a real monster.

 

Now there isn't a lot of substance to the story but Jake's wife said he used to take T and eat ice cubes to make weight and part of why he actually could not make weight was because of the water retention from blasting gear.

 

He was good and I rate him highly, only in terms of headbutting ability and juicing.

Mike Tyson nuthugging apart, Holyfield was an excellent fighter who possessed ring IQ, footwork, very good combination punching and could bang in the inside. He had a brilliant ATG resume filled with every fighter that he could fight and ducked absolutely no one. I have him in my top 5, at #3.

 

Foreman has a good case for being clean in his first career, simply because I don't think weight training had fully expanded into boxing by that point, so one of the conduits of steroids' entry into a sport wasn't in place yet.

Second career who knows, tho.

 

We must remember that some legal supplements certainly from the early 90's were sometimes described as pro-hormone supplements and that they were significantly more effective than the stuff today. Maybe too effective, which is why the FDA is the States started banning them.
Back then, stuff like diet pills actually worked, since they had massive amounts of ephedrine in them. No diet pills today have ephedrine at all.
Certainly, they weren't as good as a jab of test. in the backside, but they were pretty effective.

Guys like Holy, Tyson etc. had fantastic genetics. Even just with weight training alone they'd be jacked, far more so than the average man also doing weights.

I'm convinced many of them back then used 'roids, but maybe not in huge quantities.

 

I am *so sick* of people maintaining without any evidence that everybody used or uses today.
This is as ill-informed & emotionally based as the hyper-naive folks who think nobody who was not caught ever used.
Wanna be more extreme, assume that everyone who was caught was a false positive! (Eyes rolling & stuck in back of my head).

Yes FoF, you are correct about the history of PEDs. Many of these substances-also going by "pre-cursor" hormones-were effectively steroids.
Do if you addd those then totally legal substances to illegal PEDs, likely "many used, but maybe not in huge quantities".

But the corallary to that is many did NOT use.
And none of us knows the even rough percentage on eather count.
People cherry-pick non-evidence like broad reasons for using, not using, deterrence or that not effective, I can site pride, principles, fear of exposure or getting punished-or not. The conservative boxing culture, fear of health problems or not so much.

NONE of these often countervailing factors shows one iota of proof about HOW common they were.
Any other conclusion is as firmly un-scienterrific (sic) as believing aliens made ancient constructions or man made climate change or evolution is not exceedingly well established.

You can only broadly reason that there were & are motivations in either direction.
Now let's look at some actual facts:

People with the right genetics, good androgen levels & a big bone structure, can get as big as ALL the fighters mentioned above.
Some can with boxing training. Frank Bruno was ~ at his limit, but think Frank was doing a ton of muscle atrophying cardio? Think again.

Now he COULD have used. I am not guilty of the opposite absurd reason-free conclusion that absence of evidence means definitely not guilty.
But if anything approaching absolutely everyone used, would we not have more exposes decades later?

Also you gotta be discerning. Some dudes use & never get that big. Due to genetics, more likely ineffective deployment, you can take things that maximize strength, not bulk...
UNLESS someone gets big real fast when already fairly muscular, OR his total size exceeds what is plausible naturally-& I have linked this more than widely speculative evidence time & again-do NOT assume he used!

It is unfair to the athlete, & not logical.
Now "Hercules"? Weaver was not much over 200 lbs. in his prime. He was pretty muscular, but mainly lower body fat & more defined than his peers. Norton was as muscular-& tended to weigh more-must he have used too?
I will not even get to Carnero, who was stronger & maybe more lean muscle per square inch than them all before steroids were even invented.

Tyson was pretty by his teens when a poor kid & not boxing.
And arms between Arnold & Ferrigno?! NO, that was never the truth.
He & Holyfield (who we have good *evidence* of having used, beyond some likely health side effects) were listed at 16". That may well have been more. But you take the right photo, angle, on a short arm...
They likely had 22" & 24" arms, without being overweight.
IF Tyson was anywhere at or even near that size, then you could say he juiced. He. Was. Not.

It is just like the people, rumors & social media who claim our NYC rats are as big as cats.
Noooo...The biggest "Norway" or "Brown" rat is 2.2 lbs. Although I suppose you could make anything really obese, we are not talking about that.
The average non-overweight female & male cat? 8 & 10 lbs., respectively. Some breeds like Maine Coons somewhat more.
No, emotion gets the better of some folks.

My man RulesmakeitInteresting will set some of you straight.
He has described his weight & rough body fat at barely under 6'.
Per square inch it is likely more than Bruno.

Like me now in late middle age, he recently pressed 160 lb. DUMBBELLS for 8 good reps!
The same dudes insisting everyone cheated/cheats would see him in the gym & SWEAR he must have used. More likely that he was/is currently "juiced to the gills".
And past PED usage can make a permanent change in the architecture/potential of your muscles.
ASK HIM if he ever used. Anything.

That level would be well beyond the natural genetic potential of most men.
In the past I did 10 reps with 120's, left hand ~ a couple inches short of a full rep. That was almost certainly right around my natural potential.
But I do not have outlier genetics, nor the massive wrists/bone structure he describes.

So understand that *either* position, everyone or nobody ever used, it equally extreme, imagined-& absurd.
Some used. What percentage, & to what degree, we absolutely do NOT know.

 

Apart from the PED usuage. An ATG boxer with trememdous heart. On the flip side loves to preach about God, but fathers 10 children out of wedlock, and has to fight even though his once great skills are completely eroded.