Evander Holyfield - Jack Dempsey

agreed

 

Both men were about the same size. I think if they train in the same era they'd be a great match. Holy has more stamina and durability; Dempsey more speed and power.

Jack is seriously underrated as a puncher these days. His left hook is arguably the greatest punch in boxing history.

It's a clsoe fight every time.

 

I think Dempseys footwork is underated. Honestly outside of walcotts and alis, its the best footwork I have seen from a HW champion. have u ever seen a swarmer swarm bouncing up on his toes gliding....i mean u know how much strain that is on your legs? try it, damm near impossible. how dempsey perfected footwork with a forward swarming style is phenominal. He will have no trouble circling around and teeing off on evander.

 

You are woefully simplifying Dempsey.

No proof about what what? The Flynn fight? There most certainly is proof. Just because it isn't conclusive, or you don't accept it, does not mean that it isn't there.

Dempsey was a slugger. No one disputes that, but he was both highly stylized and highly effective.

You don't read carefully. Again, forget Dempsey after 1923. He was approaching ordinary.

Instead of throwing out an exception that proves the norm, why don't you count every champion and contender since 1920 and prove to yourself that the vast majority of them were neither aristocrats nor middle class?

Here you go again with a single example that you overgeneralize! Gatti's whole career was built on the ability to absorb punishment and a good punch. He was outclassed by Floyd. Which happens. Heart isn't a cure-all and no one said that it was.

Excuses. Biased thinking.

 

You speak with false authority.

I'm afraid that I'm dealing with an ignoramus who has an agenda. There's a whole lot more proof that Dempsey threw that fight than there is that "Dempsey isn't landing against top opposition."

It's clear that the phrase "stylized slugging" flew pretty far over your head.

Pay attention. Tyson came into this discussion because of his fight with Holyfield ---in 1996. If you want to start a new thread with 1919 Dempsey vs. 1988 Tyson, then do it. But first, go google the "straw man fallacy".

....You add a measly 4 individuals and try to revise history. Idiocy.

Straw man fallacy. I never said that.

Holyfield's heart? What does that matter? "'Heart' is the biggest overrated aspect of boxing" --your words. Then you turn around and say that most or all elite fighters have heart. But it doesn't matter?

....You're tying yourself up in knots.

 

Tyson could throw short punches with great power. That part of his game had started to diminish somewhat when he met Holyfield, though.

 

This may in fact be the case.

I do however feel that it is the one aspect of his game that he never truly rounded off.

If DaMatto had lived longer he would have been aiming for nothing less than refining Tysons short punching technique to the Joe Louis level. I can tell you that without asking him.

 

I think Jerry Quarry critiqued Dempsey,by saying he had wide swinging punches which would be easy to time and counter.Of all the old timers he'd lose sleep only with Marciano.

 

What I wouldnt give to see him try.

 

I agree.

 

A lot of people here would consider Tyson and Bowe at least as good head-to-head if not better.

His opposition is not close to Holyfield's.

It is, but:

1. Willard's resume isn't exactly thick, either. An old, fat, unmotivated Johnson, a peak Dempsey and Firpo are the most important names on it.

2. Bowe never got stopped, whereas the two best punchers (and the only notable punchers) Willard ever faced, both stopped him.

Lewis faced:
Mason
Tyson
Klitschko
Tua
Bruno
Briggs
Tucker
Ruddock
Morrison
Mercer
McCall I
McCall II
Rahman I
Rahman II
Holyfield I
Holyfield II
Grant

Out of all of those, only Rahman and McCall knocked him down. Want to weigh that against the punchers Willard faced:

Dempsey
Firpo


Both of whom stopped Willard? In addition, he quit against some dude named Joe Cox, perhaps saving himself from another stoppage loss.


Want to continue this argument?

No, though both certainly hit like a truck while lacking in speed and overal skill. But i was talking about punchers of the calibre of Firpo and Dempsey: Willard was past his best when both of them stopped him, but he never proved he could take them in his prime, either. If Wladimir Klitschko knocks out a 50 year old average joe tomorrow, you could say that average joe is past his best. But that wouldn't mean he'd go the distance had he been in his physical prime!